Your hormones changed — and your products never caught up. Caire Beauty co-founders Lorrie King and Celeste Lee break down exactly what declining estrogen does to your skin starting in your 30s, why delivery matters more than ingredients, and how they built a patented lipid emulsion that actually gets into the skin instead of just sitting on top of it. Plus: HRT and skin, the problem with anti-aging language, and why most women are layering all wrong.
Stacy London (00:00)
Hello ladies, Lorrie King and Celeste Lee, the founders of Care Beauty. I'm so happy to have you. How are ya?
Lorrie King (00:08)
We're delighted to be here
Stacy London (00:09)
First of can we just talk about that? Is it light? What's going on, Lorrie? Because you're glowing. Your skin looks insane.
Lorrie King (00:15)
⁓ I have a regimen. mean, and Celeste knows this. ⁓ It comes from my days of working with Halle Berry. And you know, it's interesting because I've worked with so many different celebrities, but she was the one that always emphasized and, you know, from a press standpoint, we always asked about her skin. And so she taught me like the tricks of taking care of your skin. And one of them is really about doing sort of your own deep dive facial weekly. So
Stacy London (00:33)
Mmm.
Really?
Lorrie King (00:44)
Yes, yes. I,
Stacy London (00:46)
That's not what I thought we were going to say.
Lorrie King (00:48)
no, no, no. One of those, I mean, she obviously believes in whole body health. You see, she works out, she has her whole platform, but really she's so, she's always been into her skin and she believed in these facials. One of them has an acid peel. And then what I do is after that, I put on the care mask, which makes me glow. So what you're seeing is my after Sunday weekly,
Stacy London (01:05)
I'm going to.
Lorrie King (01:14)
masking, I should say. I do it when I actually drink my tea. So that's what you're seeing. I don't wear a moisturizer any longer. yeah. And Celeste, Celeste is the one. No, but Celeste, remember Celeste and I, I was desperate, right? One day we were out walking in the city in New York city and we went to Bloomingdale's and she was like, okay, we're going to, we're going to get a solution for you. Your skin is so dry.
Stacy London (01:16)
Well...
my God, I so many questions.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (01:28)
So use my moisturizer.
⁓ I remember.
It was so, it was literally like, harsh. I was looking at his skin, I'm like, this just can't be right. And by the way, this was like 15, 20 years ago, which is when it starts, which is when this starts, right?
Lorrie King (01:53)
Yes. And we're in the beauty industry. I was in the beauty industry. Yeah. That's
Stacy London (01:53)
well.
Lorrie King (01:58)
right. That's right. And so Celeste was like, let's go try things. So we stopped by Shoshado. We stopped by Lancome. And then we got to La Mer. And they gave me a little sample. And my skin went from, you know, dry to glowing. However, that stopped working. And that's a part of why, not that's not my truth.
Stacy London (02:06)
Mmm.
Lorrie King (02:21)
I mean, you know, my skincare products just stopped working. So this glow is a lot of work, right?
Stacy London (02:25)
Can we talk about that?
Yeah, let's talk about that for a second. ⁓ Because I think that, know, got, we'll talk about Care Beauty, the company that you founded, the skincare company that you founded, which I am a huge fan of the grownup moisturizer, and you don't even wear moisturizer anymore, so I'm completely flipping out. ⁓ I am a huge proponent of it. I cannot tell you enough good things. And I'm not trying to sell anybody on anything, but all I will say is that I was asked if I'd had a facelift.
Lorrie King (02:40)
Celestas.
Woo!
Stacy London (02:55)
I was six months
after I started using this moisturizer and I was like, really? But that's just a testament to how good the product is. But I do want to talk about this idea of continuing skin health, right? This is very important, I think, for people who are going through menopause. We know that we're going to lose a lot of skin elasticity during that time, but also just as we're aging. And I don't think that it is necessarily a
superficial thing to talk about how we look and wanting our skin to be its best. My whole thing is I'm not trying to fool anybody. I'm not trying to make you think I look 35. I'm going to be 57 this year. I want my skin to be good. I want to take care of it. I want it to last as long as I do. And I want it to look like Laurie's skin. I want it to be shiny and happy and cheerful and hopeful, all the things that we want for 2026.
But I really do struggle with the fact that products stop working. Why is that? How can we, you know, how do we change it up so that we're keeping our skin healthy? And, you know, let's talk also about what is the new, what are the new ingredients to talk about? What is the technology that we're looking at? There's a lot to talk about because I feel like skincare is always changing. So let's start with, ⁓ let me look at my notes.
Let's start with ⁓ declining hormones can be ⁓ like a real issue when it comes to skincare. We know obviously about losing elasticity, but what else can happen Celeste when our skin starts to age?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (04:34)
So, you know, it's a very complex mechanism, our skin, right? It is our, it's our largest organ. It's got three key layers. You've got the epidermis, which these days in the magazines or whatever, in the press seems to be called the skin barrier. It's the same thing. You got your dermis, which is where your proteins really are. collagen is a protein, elastin is a protein. And those are the two primary components. But what people don't realize is like collagen has like 32 pieces to it. I don't even know.
Stacy London (04:49)
Mm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (05:03)
how many parts there are to last in at all. And then you've got this hyaluronic acid, which is not an acid, know, number one thing I want to share because somehow people think it's an acid. They're like, I don't want that on my face. And all these things, we're making less and less of it because estrogen is instrumental in skin cell generation and starting at 30. I mean, nobody believes this, but it's a very small amount. You make less estrogen, you make...
Stacy London (05:14)
Right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (05:30)
less progesterone and women too, we make less testosterone, which in skin acts like estrogen. So all these things are declining by a half a percent to a percent a year. So obviously at the beginning in your thirties, no biggie, right? You can't tell. But then all of a sudden somewhere around 40, 45, we women, and this is just natural. It's the way it is. It's the human body. Our rate of decline of these sex hormones doubles that of a man, period.
Stacy London (05:44)
Right.
Wow.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (05:59)
of the
same age. And so of course our skin is changing dramatically faster than a guy. That's just, so when you hear women say like, my God, my husband's skin looks so much better than mine. It's not that he's been ⁓ exercising perfectly and sleeping perfectly and he's like the greatest guy ever. It's not what it is. It's just human biology. So things that are happening, we're making less skin cells, all of it, the lipids.
Stacy London (06:14)
No.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (06:25)
the collagen, the elastin, the hyaluronic, the keratin, the melanin. We're making less melanin. Sometimes I've noticed that my lips aren't as red as they used to be. I've got lipstick on now, but when I wake up in the morning and I still have a nice color, but it's not like I was when I was 25 and you can't get upset about it. have to say, okay, so be it. That's And that's okay. And so,
Stacy London (06:45)
Now I'm looking at my lips and I'm like, they don't look any former.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (06:52)
What do you do about it? Well, as a woman, if you want to feel good about yourself, and I don't see anything wrong with feeling good about myself, then how I look and feel ⁓ my hair, my skin is incredibly important to me. So that's one of the primary reasons that Lorrie and I started this company is that we came out of beauty and we were like, my God, our skincare is not working or it's different. And it wasn't just us, it was all of our friends.
plus or minus the same age, they were all like, what's going on with my under eye? Like, where did this come from? And it was interesting because Lorrie, she came out of John Frieda and people used to ask her all the time about haircare, right? And both of us were in fragrance and people would ask us what fragrance style. And then when all of a sudden all of your friends are asking the same question about eyes and lines and bags and circles, you're like, okay, what the hell? You know, I mean, literally what the hell? So Lorrie, know what happened because it's interesting.
Lorrie King (07:44)
Yeah.
That's right.
Stacy London (07:49)
Yes, tell
us what it was. I want to know, now I'm actually a little bit curious about the origins of the beginning of care and also how you two met. said you've already known each other 15, 20 years when you were talking about dry skin. So where did you come from? How did you come together? And was it really just your friend saying, like, help that made you realize you were onto something?
Lorrie King (08:01)
yeah. Yeah.
We did, mean, Celeste and I have known each other through a mutual friend. She went to undergraduate school with him and I went to my master's with him. And he connected us and said, the two of you are going to get on. And that's what happened. So many, many, many moons ago, Celeste and I would always have these different ideas. We would always talk about, you know, what innovations are out there.
As I was paying off my student loans from that very expensive masters, I was working at Bloomingdale's as a makeup artist for Yves Saint Laurent part time. And Celeste and I would talk about, you know, the Yves Saint Laurent Touche-Aclat concealer. And I loved it.
Stacy London (08:58)
Me too!
Lorrie King (09:01)
was all about concealing things. So the insight came when Celeste and I started saying, why are we concealing? What is going on? Why do we have to conceal what's going on instead of getting our skin to work better and our products to work better? And so our curiosity led us to what care was and talking to the right ⁓ formulator and scientists.
Stacy London (09:10)
you
Lorrie King (09:29)
about our ideas. And that's where the real insight around hormone decline came because Celeste and I spoke with Dr. Joe, who's our lead scientist, about what's going on physiologically. And he has not just his doctorate, but he has a master's in physiology. So he began to break down what was happening. So that's why, you know, for us, the insight was, well, gosh, if we can get healthier skin.
There's more longevity to the skin and it's functioning better. Isn't that all about longevity and wellness? So this is where our insights came together, you know, more than almost six years now, right? Yes, we were talking about all of this and now neither one of us wear concealer. ⁓
Stacy London (10:14)
Right, I mean, we have been, and well, okay,
I don't wear concealer. I basically stop wearing makeup, to be honest. I wear tinted moisturizer, that's my thing, but now that I'm noticing that my lips are the same color as my face, I'm gonna start wearing more lip gloss or something. ⁓ But so, there are lot of products now being sold to women, right? And this is, I think, this is the kind of conundrum that I'm always sort of holding in both hands, right? Two things can be true at the same time.
you know, the beauty industry can run on basically insecurity and telling us like, you'll be great if you have this eyelash, if you use this serum, if you use this thing, everything will be better for you. You'll look better, you'll look shinier and brighter and happier. But then there are the people who are noticing that insecurity and putting out product that isn't necessarily effective, but recognizing that insecurity is deep enough to get a lot of money from people, right? To be almost extractive.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (10:47)
Yes.
Stacy London (11:11)
How do you do something, how do you create product that really speaks to both the insecurities and sort of the physiological effects of what happens to our skin as it ages without being extracted? How do you know about creating products?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (11:26)
So that's a really amazing
question because you kind of hit the nail on the head. The word extractive is true. know, we have brands, there are a lot of decent skincare brands out there, even for women in midlife, but a lot of the better ones that I would argue are semi-competitive with us, right? And actually have created with unique science or the best quality ingredients and enough of it, the best act is.
Lorrie King (11:29)
huh.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (11:52)
and they're charging hundreds and hundreds of dollars for a serum. And Lorrie and I are appalled. I'll be very frank, we're appalled. And I understand, and we come out of marketing, so we know how much money gets spent on marketing. Okay, a lot of money, but does it have to be that much money? At the end of the day, what really matters with skin health and skincare and self-identity and taking care of yourself is actually just being able to do it and not to feel weird about it.
You know, I used to be one of these people that would make a little pot of moisturizer last for like two years. You know what? That's ridiculous. Ridiculous. I was the kind of person that was just like looking at it. I would like the packaging and maybe I liked the smell and I now know the smell is bad news. mean, but it's more about, you know, and we have customers who use our serum, which if I may tell my own horn, it's pretty great, right? But if you're not using it to its best effectiveness,
Stacy London (12:27)
Yeah.
Lorrie King (12:38)
Bye.
Stacy London (12:46)
Yes.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (12:51)
It actually makes me sad. And we deliberately priced our product fairly. And there were a number of reasons why. Lorrie and I did a lot of market research. We convened women and talked to women about lifestyle before we started this brand. And we knew we wanted to do skincare, but we were also looking at adjacent areas that are menopause issues, right? We were looking at sleep issues. We were looking at belly gain. We were looking at brain fog.
And one of the things that came up over and over, and I'll never forget it, is when people talk about how much supplements cost, how much skincare costs, how much going to a therapist, any of this is very expensive. And not everybody makes a million dollars a year. And in fact, most people don't even make 100,000. And then on top of it, the average income of a woman in the United States, across all women, all income levels, all backgrounds,
begins to decline at guess what age? 50. Which is almost precisely the same age that the menopause day hits in your life. That is not a coincidence. That's a reality. And men, okay, yes, they also get hit with an income decline issue. There is ageism, but guess what? It doesn't hit them until they're 60. So they get a full 10 years at their highest level of income.
Stacy London (13:48)
50.
Lorrie King (13:49)
Yes.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (14:13)
So yeah, and then we women live 10 years longer or more. Hello, there is something so wrong with this. so, Lauren and I know exactly how much things cost. And so we took that information and we thought, what can somebody of under $100,000, under $80,000, under $60,000 income actually hopefully be able to afford on a monthly basis on a one.
really good product that's actually going to make a performance benefit difference to her skin in midlife. In other words, we want to help repair that collagen loss. We want to help restore that hydration. We want to help your own skin to perform better by itself. And that's, what we're doing. We're trying to give your skin tools in multiple ways. And, and believe me, our investors think we're nuts. They're like, you should have made that into 19 products, not one. And we're like, well,
Stacy London (15:10)
Right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (15:11)
Okay, well, you know, this is what we did. And, and so, and that was the idea. We literally talked to people, what is a fair price? Like what, what can you make? And so while, you know, in the best of all worlds, would we be selling it at $10? Yes, that's not realistic from a cost perspective. It costs us vastly more, but do we need to charge 250, 300, 500? No.
Lorrie King (15:20)
Right. Right.
Stacy London (15:28)
Sure.
Lorrie King (15:35)
That's right. It was a conscious decision. just, there's, very simple decisions that we made along the way to sort of promote this idea. You know, when, when most of the beauty industry looks at building a product, it's always about your, the age that you're at, the number, right? It's about taking something that they built, you know, you can look at everywhere from a Estee Lauder where, know, you have a Clinique and then you, they grow you into an Estee Lauder or
into a Bobby Brown or into a La Mer or whatever their other brands that they own. And L'Oreal does the same thing. So we said to ourselves, if we're about pro health, pro aging, what can we do? And also pro women, right? The name is care for a reason, right? Care with an eye in the middle for the individual woman. So developing the product has to really connect. And that's why the serum isn't just a
Stacy London (16:21)
Hmm
Lorrie King (16:33)
face serum. It's an eye, face, neck, hands. It's a serum that we call molecular nutrition because it's feeding the skin, enhancing the skin. It's a very different approach than the all-in-one beauty industry. And you have to remember, we've not just focused on ingredients. We've actually focused on how product delivers to the skin. That's different. That's what people don't get.
Stacy London (16:46)
Yes, it's very
Mmm.
Talk about that a little bit,
because I'm very... Yes, it's Yes, it's true.
Lorrie King (17:03)
Well, Celeste is our resident scientist, I've heard she's gonna go for anything in green,
and I could explain it, but Celeste's here, so go for it. ⁓
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (17:11)
You know, we'll just keep it simple.
Stacy London (17:12)
Go for it!
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (17:13)
We'll keep it simple. mean, Laurie's right. It's not about, think about this way. You're cooking an incredible, one of these complicated Martha Stewart, Oat-Talangi, I don't know, whoever it is, you know, recipes, and you want to start with the best possible ingredients. That's great. But if you don't understand the technique, if you don't, if the recipe isn't giving you the right order on how to put this together, then all you do is you have a pile of a mess. Okay? That's the truth.
Stacy London (17:34)
Right. Exactly. It's like if you don't, if you don't
realize you're supposed to cook the tomatoes, you know, before you make the sauce, right? These are the things that stop you from having good sauce.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (17:40)
Yeah!
Lorrie King (17:41)
Okay.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (17:45)
So at this end of the day, great skincare, great beauty product in general is the same way. Delivery in skincare, getting into the skin layers is critical. We have seven to nine skin layers depending on what doctor you talk to, all right? So the outer three, the dermis is your protective layer. That's what's keeping the UV, the pollution, everything out. And then that sort of the sexual dermis that I was talking about, your protein, that's your tissue.
Lorrie King (17:45)
That's it.
Stacy London (18:00)
Hmm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (18:14)
And you want to get as deep as you can. And so our product is designed to use the tiniest possible molecules. We have a custom made, ⁓ hyaluronic acid. In other words, okay, not only is hyaluronic acid, not an acid, all HA is made alike and the smaller, the better. That's the truth. and in fact, having multiple sizes is even better because it can get to where it needs to be. And then we have a fermenting peptide. And why did we ferment it?
Stacy London (18:27)
Not an acid.
Lorrie King (18:38)
to.
Stacy London (18:39)
That's interesting.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (18:43)
So there's a lot of good peptides. ⁓ We love our peptide, it's proven, but more than that, we ferment it. And the reason why is it increases not only the potency, but it increases your skin's ability to absorb it. It's like a plant absorbing hydration. so it activates your skin. And this peptide literally tells your own skin to make more collagen, to make more hyaluronic acid. So in other words,
you're helping your skin to make more cells that it's no longer making because of that estrogen decline. So what we're doing is we're compensating for that loss in estrogen. And that is incredibly important. And the moisturizer, here's something really, I think that I'm very proud of. I Lorrie and I are really happy. You don't need a lot. I know Lorrie's not using it, but I do. But I literally use like maybe a fingernail's worth. And that's enough. That's enough.
Stacy London (19:35)
Yeah. And not just because you're
trying to keep it for two years.
Lorrie King (19:40)
Hey.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (19:40)
It's
not because I'm trying to keep it for you. That's for my whole face. I probably use another thing for my neck. Okay, that's true. And then I, my hands just drink this stuff up. But when people come to meet us sometimes in person at different events or at a store, whatever it is, and they want to scoop it out, I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, is not like your, your typical drug store, whatever, where they're just
Lorrie King (19:57)
No, right, right.
full of water.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (20:04)
to
get you to buy, buy, buy, I mean, talk about extractive. So maybe that's only $25, $30 of the drugstore, but they want you to buy it, buy it, buy it, buy it. And you constantly, like every three or four weeks have to buy another giant thing of moisturizer. And that's not what it's about because this has, um, not only the delivery, it's got these lipids that are so tiny that they literally just sink into your entire epidermis and it gives you that bounce back. And over time, what's interesting is that.
It also serves to lock in your own body's hydration in the dermis below. I threw out a lot of science just now at the end of the day, we're in feel better about itself. It will. It's kind like any machine. You fix any part of the machine and the whole machine gets better by itself.
Stacy London (20:42)
I love it.
Yeah,
Lorrie King (20:53)
Bye.
Stacy London (20:53)
and I think that there's something very important about the fact that it's sort of getting the skin to do what it once did, right? Like that it's actually that you sort of activate the skin in a way that allows it to perform differently. Because I still struggle with the fact that even though I know, all right, getting used to, know, fine lines and wrinkles or getting used to like losing elasticity, I'm at that stage of my life where I want somebody to hold my neck in photographs behind me, right?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (21:00)
Yes, yes.
Lorrie King (21:20)
Right.
Stacy London (21:21)
Exactly.
I'll be that friend for you and you'll that friend for me. But that's different than advertising it is like, get rid of fine lines and wrinkles. Get rid of visible signs of aging. If I hear that one more time, I'm like, we're not after that. We're not after demonizing aging. We're after that kind of longevity performance in our skin that we want our bodies to have as well. to separate them really drives me crazy because that to me is the extractive.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (21:22)
The hair pull! The hair pull!
Lorrie King (21:32)
Right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (21:44)
Yes!
Lorrie King (21:44)
That's right.
Stacy London (21:50)
is only playing on insecurity and appearance rather than the value of long-term health. That the skin is our largest organ, that it deserves our care. To talk about it in a way that isn't about ⁓ appearance necessarily, but truly the way that you feel as you age. Like saying that we strength train isn't so that we can just carry heavy things. It's for the stability. It's for not losing any muscle mass.
I feel like this is the same kind of regimen that once you're involved in it, you rapidly start to see a difference.
Lorrie King (22:26)
my gosh, you hit it.
You hit the nail on the head. ⁓ We obviously are now on QVC, just like you. And one, it's fabulous because one of the things that I say, we say is that the care is like a personal trainer for your skin. It's kind of like if you're, yes, if your, if your personal trainer goes away on vacation, what happens? You know, you're not working out, you don't do anything. So the skin is the same.
Stacy London (22:33)
Yay! ⁓ that's awesome!
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (22:36)
And fabulous!
Stacy London (22:45)
Yeah, I did need more of them.
Yeah, no do anything.
Lorrie King (22:56)
You won't have the glow. won't have the firming. So you have to think about building the health of your skin. And that's why we say care is a personal trainer for your skin. It's the same psychology just like for your body. like I may not use the moisturizer on my face, but I use it on any crepey skin areas because of the emulsion. It's filling the lipids, right? So my elbows, my hands, I mean, it's gotten pressed.
recognition for the body as well. You know, so it's it's got this multipurpose use. It's just an indulgence.
Stacy London (23:26)
when
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (23:34)
It's
not an indulgence. do think it's like what you said earlier. It's like a daily vitamin for my skin. I'll tell you where I love the moisturizer. My knees are not great. I mean, that's every woman has a different menopause and post menopause journey. Let's acknowledge that. Right. So my problem is not your problem is not your problem. So my knees, I woke up one day a few years ago. was like, I was like, what is that? What? I was like,
Stacy London (23:49)
next.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (24:00)
more wrinkles on my knees than on my neck. Like all my friends are complaining about their neck. I'm like, well, what about the knee?
Lorrie King (24:07)
Well, let's
hope your earlobes don't go.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (24:10)
So, know, I do, I use the moisturizer on my knees a couple times or when I come out of the bath. And you know what? It makes a huge difference. It feels different 24 hours later. That's I know that the Lipid Emulsion that we have a patent on actually is working because I can still feel it before my next shower or bath. It's like really interesting actually.
Stacy London (24:22)
Mmm.
I that's amazing. do think, again, like one of the things that I am, you know, we're living in a very tumultuous time. We have been for the last six years, right? I mean, it's been a little bit loopy in this part of the world, in all parts of the world. But I do think that there has become this kind of overindulgence in self-care and then this real need to stay truly healthy and to understand the difference between those two things, right? Like that there is
Lorrie King (24:44)
Right.
Stacy London (25:02)
When people say, you know, we understand everybody's, you know, nervous system is dysregulated, all of this stuff, it drives me a little bit crazy because I keep thinking, well, if we keep saying that, if we keep reinforcing that, we're gonna be able to handle less and less. We have to build resilience. And that's the same way in our emotional lives. That's the same way I look at health. Health is about resilience and it is about your skin being able to take it and beat it, right? And you can't do that without help from product.
Lorrie King (25:17)
Hmm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (25:17)
Yeah.
Stacy London (25:31)
And I'm curious when we are talking about loss of hormones, what is, have you noticed any difference? I don't know if either of you are on HRT or MHT taking hormones for menopause or post menopause, but I'm curious about what happens when we're on HRT to our skin? Does that benefit us as well as using care? Have you seen any difference between people who are on hormones versus people who are not using your product? I'm just curious what women who are looking for
Lorrie King (25:42)
Mm-hmm.
Stacy London (25:59)
legitimate answers are going to get if they're taking hormones or if they're not from you.
Lorrie King (26:05)
Yes, it is.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (26:05)
This is very, very important question. I was
Stacy London (26:06)
Hmm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (26:07)
on HRT not very long for hot flashes ⁓ in my early 50s and it helped enormously. And at the time, I definitely did notice that it impacted my skin in a positive way. I wasn't focused on that on a personal level, okay. But having said that. ⁓
Stacy London (26:11)
Uh-huh.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (26:26)
One of the people that we speak to from time to time, Dr. Mary Jane Minkin, who some thinkers like, you know, the grandmother of modern menopause thinking, she point blank told us at the very beginning of all this, that one in two of her clients, ⁓ know, customers, patients, whatever you want to call it, would come because they saw that or had heard from a friend that HRT could help skin. And it does because it's literally giving you extra estrogen. It's giving you back extra estrogen. So it does work.
Lorrie King (26:51)
Yeah, it does.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (26:56)
What does not work in my humble opinion, and I've talked to a number of doctors about this, is taking vaginal estrogen, which is such a great thing for the vagina, and it should be used where it's designed for, and putting it on your skin. You know what? Not so great, because it's actually a very large molecule, and maybe there's a small, tiny benefit, but better to actually get some good skincare ladies. I mean, that's what I have to say. But yeah, I mean, it can make a huge difference, and...
Stacy London (27:06)
Exactly!
Yeah.
Lorrie King (27:21)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (27:24)
And it's not just impacting your skin. It's good for your hair when you're on HRT. It's stronger for health. It can help muscle if you're helping yourself with some training and some strength training going on. I all of these things, as you said, Stacy, it is about resilience and it's about doing it together. There's not one magic solution, right? There's no such thing in the world as that. you got to...
Lorrie King (27:29)
Your bones.
Stacy London (27:49)
right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (27:52)
Do a lot of things and then not feel badly about it if you miss a day here or miss a day there, but just keep going and then you'll feel better about yourself.
Stacy London (28:01)
I see, I think that's also something very important because when we talk about what it means to take care of oneself, we tend to look at the things that we need to do, whether that's eat well or take care of our skin or sleep or whatever it is. But if you're not doing them consistently, you won't see progress and you won't get resilience, right? It's not like, let me put all this on and then magic presto, know, everything's perfect with my skin.
Lorrie King (28:18)
Absolutely. Absolutely.
That's right. Because
the mental side, the emotional side is so important to your health. And we forget that. So many of us don't sleep well. And I'm thankful that I sleep fairly well. But I do have to get up in the middle of night now, which I hate. And I'll remember the day when I don't have to wake up. I remember when I sleep and I'm gotten a whole eight hours in. I'm like, wow.
Stacy London (28:28)
though. Yes.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (28:45)
Reach for it.
Lorrie King (28:53)
You know, but it's about your mindset. every morning I meditate, you know, I live near the ocean. So being able to walk out onto the water, see the ocean is a part of how I breathe and live and what brings me joy. But it's also just the community of people that are around me. So it's very important for us to have really solid girlfriends and relationships.
Stacy London (28:59)
No!
Hmm.
Lorrie King (29:22)
where we can talk about all of these things in a way that's positive, uplifting. So many of us, and I can remember, we're always negative about aging. I mean.
Stacy London (29:33)
⁓ I mean, but also
negative about our own self image when it comes to ACEs. I mean, not just like, I'm afraid of it. But as I certainly know personally, as I started to experience like actual physical changes, I was like, what is happening? I'm like morphing into some kind of Gorgon. I've never, know, I just, remember thinking this is so hard and that there wasn't anybody there to share it with. And this is also, this brings me to something
Lorrie King (29:36)
Racked!
Exactly.
Stacy London (30:01)
that you guys have done now for quite a few years. You've done the Marvelous Mrs. Menopause event. With Let's Talk Menopause, and I think it's really important to talk about that because you took the product and created a platform to creating community, which again, I won't be able to ever talk about this enough, right? Everybody's response to anything, whether it's menopause or AI is we need human connection, right?
Lorrie King (30:06)
Yes.
Thanks
Stacy London (30:29)
And that idea that we can talk about skin on a much more superficial level with our friends, like, my God, you look amazing. Or when you're really struggling, those things feel very important to me. It feels very important to be able to be vulnerable at this stage when we ask for help that we're asking because we know we need it and that we know that there are experts who can provide it, that there's a community that surrounds us. And that feeling of being ⁓
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (30:29)
Yes.
Lorrie King (30:36)
you
Stacy London (30:58)
I don't think it's too dramatic to say safe, right? I think this is something that certainly in the platforms that we've all worked with and worked ⁓ on together, I think that there has been this real sense of camaraderie that there are women that you can speak to now who understand aging, not just from this perspective of shriveling.
right? We're like losing something as opposed to what we can gain. you know, I really I applaud you because I think that this has been I mean, I think about the last six years since you started. Look at the tremendous gains that have been made in the market because of you and because of speaking about this. But, you know, I really do think that it's quite remarkable.
Lorrie King (31:42)
thank you.
Yep.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (31:46)
Stacy,
you were there with us from the very beginning.
Lorrie King (31:48)
That's right. You were there at the very beginning.
Stacy London (31:49)
From the g-
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (31:51)
never forget you were sitting on the panel and we were talking about at the time the fact that at that point, four or five years ago, five years ago, people were still barely talking about menopause. One of the things that we were talking about on that panel was a call. was a panel about culture and it was about how did you find out about menopause? And Stacy told this fantastic story about watching all the family.
Stacy London (32:04)
Barely.
Lorrie King (32:08)
culture.
Yes.
Yes.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (32:19)
and how she thought Edith had gotten into menopause in her seventies as a child and that was her reference point. And I remember thinking, okay, wait, that's fair. I remember watching that episode more or less. yes. And I always think about, and it's really true. now we have come, you know, things have improved. There's a lot more, I would say openness and yet at the same time,
Lorrie King (32:23)
Right, right, right, right, Right, yes.
Stacy London (32:27)
Yes!
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (32:44)
I worry because I feel like there's a continuum between openness and then there's still that criticism, that self-criticism, group criticism, like, this is what you should be doing when you go into menopause. And that's not really helpful either. We want people to know and come to it themselves and feel comfortable being proactive and asking and learning and being able to find a decent doctor or two that gives you a few minutes to actually talk about what's bumming you out and why.
Stacy London (33:01)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (33:14)
You know, it's, it's so complicated because we do live in a society, especially now in the digital age where we're so visual. Everything is about how we look and gosh, doesn't she look amazing? She's, know, Jane Fonda look at her, right? And you know, we have the, now we have these new icons that look amazing for their age as it were. But I also feel like, you know, it's a double negative, you know, I know.
Stacy London (33:22)
Mmm.
Of course, because they don't look their age.
And this is, I remember having this conversation when ⁓ Vanity Fair did a shoot maybe a couple of years ago with Nicole Kidman. And everybody was saying how amazing she looked in that pleated mini skirt, that mu-mu mini skirt. I remember thinking, yeah, if she was a Catholic school girl and she was eight, you know, we're not talking about Nicole Kidman looking great for her age. We're talking about her defying aging.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (33:47)
Ugh.
Lorrie King (33:52)
Right.
Right, right.
Stacy London (34:03)
And that to me is not realistic for most people. And that does not, that negates a lot of the information, right? It's that we're not talking about plastic surgery and we're not talking about what it means to be a multimillionaire and have your chef and your private trainer. But in his case, it's not me. Most of the population does not look like Nicole Kidman at any stage.
Lorrie King (34:06)
Yeah.
It's true.
Someone reminding you to do your strength training.
Right, that's
right.
Stacy London (34:33)
whether,
you the fact that she looks even less like a 56 year old or 57 year old, 58 year old, I don't even know how old she is, but the fact that she does not look like the 1 % of 58 year olds, I think really disturbs the conversation, right? Now it's amazing when we talk about Jane Stapleton, as opposed to the role models that we have now, like you guys, like Halle Berry, like Naomi Watts, this is a modern version.
Lorrie King (34:37)
Thank
Right, right, right, that's true.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (34:44)
Yeah.
Yep.
Stacy London (34:59)
of
a menopausal woman, right? Which looks very different, I think, in 2026 than it did in 1978 or whatever we're talking about. I mean, right? I do think that that has to do with like, you know, better haircuts and things like that. But I also think that it does have to do with true ⁓ scientific change around skincare, true scientific change around haircare, things like that. We've gotten better as we've gotten older because we are watching technology change as well.
Lorrie King (35:07)
yes, absolutely. Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (35:20)
rest.
Lorrie King (35:23)
That's true.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (35:28)
Yes.
Lorrie King (35:29)
And we're
better informed. So you have platforms like Let's Talk Menopause that brings you education. You have now doctors learning through NAMS. You have brands like ours who, you you build a brand that that women can trust. Ultimately, that platform of trust is what brings people back, right? And that's where we're thriving because people try the products and then they want to gift it.
Stacy London (35:33)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Lorrie King (35:57)
or they want to tell someone or someone saying, what is that? So how do you build a platform for trust? The Marblers Mrs. Menopause event is a part of what that is. Our book, the Pro-Age Playbook is about building trust. It's about having something that women can use as a resource. We're not telling women how to live. We attacked it from the standpoint of your senses and that
Stacy London (36:01)
Yes.
Lorrie King (36:25)
hormones are actually diminishing across your body. And that's where Celeste's sort of insight around hormone decline is so important because women, when they see us at different pop-ups and shows, they're always asking, ⁓ my gosh, I don't know who to talk to. I don't know what doctor to see. And I mean, I'm selling skincare, but by having the book there, it opens the conversation, allows us to inform it. Ultimately, as I said,
Stacy London (36:42)
Yeah.
Right. Yes.
Lorrie King (36:55)
We're here to embrace this woman. We're here building a platform for women to give back. This isn't just about me and Celeste. This is a broader vision for women.
Stacy London (37:01)
Yeah.
Yeah. And I,
you know, one of the things that I, I had to realize myself is that when you do have effective product, that's sort of the number one thing for me is effective product that you can point to and say, look, you have a patent. This is not like you're just using ingredients that every other company uses. I do think that you need an effective proposition in order to gain trust. And now I'm curious about a couple of things, Lorrie, because one thing, you know, you have said, keep your protocol simple.
Lorrie King (37:19)
Yes. Right.
Stacy London (37:34)
keep your regimen simple. I'm curious a little bit what you mean by that because like there was a time where I had a 12 step process, right? And part of the reason that I stopped doing it was I got, didn't want to, I didn't want to spend all that money. I mean, it's like costing a fortune every month. So I kind of had to kind of rejigger and evaluate, what are the most important things I need right now? Right? When you say keep it simple, is that in terms of not kind of cross contaminating too many products?
Lorrie King (37:35)
Yes.
Stacy London (38:04)
Is that because the fewer products that you use that are effective actually do the work? What's the reasoning behind it?
Lorrie King (38:11)
The key insight here is that most women are taught to layer, just buy it all and layer. yeah, everything, put it all on, see what works and then what happens. Like me, I had Melia for years underneath my eyes. It was a little Melia. You know how when a baby, a newborn baby is born, they have all those little dots? That's exactly what it is, right? And when you get them, you have to get them
Stacy London (38:15)
Right, toner, serum, oil. ⁓
What's that?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (38:29)
The little white dots, the little fat dots.
Stacy London (38:31)
⁓
we-
little thoughts. Yeah.
Lorrie King (38:41)
Extracted I had they would and you're clogging your pores basically, right? So by putting so many products on so you have to find a route I believe if you're comfortable like I just use a tinted moisturizer with an SPF Just like you were you were speaking towards well that has improved that technology has improved over the years So stepping all the way back You're gonna use a simple cleanser. If you wear makeup, you're gonna use one. That's an emollient right a balm
Stacy London (38:45)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (39:00)
Yes.
Stacy London (39:09)
Mm-hmm.
Lorrie King (39:09)
says that'll
get all the makeup off really. And you could double cleanse with that same balm if you choose to, and it's not all coming off. But then I typically use a botanical toner. Nothing with alcohol, just a botanical. Botanical, nothing with alcohol, yeah, florals, essences. What that does is it resets the skin. So it helps prepare your skin to receive the next products.
Stacy London (39:23)
Nothing without, okay, I was gonna say, what do mean by botanical? I know that means floral, right?
Lorrie King (39:38)
better and more efficiently.
Stacy London (39:40)
Well, did, you know, I know I did an Instagram with my friend Heidi and we were both talking. I was talking about how care, but I was explaining to her what you explained to me. Order resets. You've got me. It helps more product penetrate the dermis. I like that you want speed dial in my.
Lorrie King (39:48)
Yes. ⁓
Right.
I love it. And then the serum, the care serum. Now you can, you can choose to add another serum. You can choose to add a vitamin C. There are key reasons why we don't have a vitamin C in our serum. It's because vitamin C deteriorates how quickly, Celeste, three to six months?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (40:14)
Immediately,
no, even less immediately upon opening, even the stable C's really, you should be using that product up within two to three months max. And the other kinds that, that deteriorate quickly. I mean, it's, I don't know. It's good for a couple of weeks, maybe in.
Lorrie King (40:24)
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah,
Stacy London (40:33)
now.
Lorrie King (40:33)
exactly. you know, they work obviously, but you got to go through them. So you buy the smaller bottles. Yes, they work for brightening.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (40:42)
Or you can use the Care Moisturizer, which has a fantastic anti-oxidant that can compensate. So, you know, there's a lot of ways to go after free radical, okay?
Lorrie King (40:45)
Exactly. And that's the, that's right.
Right.
But that's right. So some people will layer serums or some people will do the moisturizer, which most women will use the moisturizer. One of the things that's important here, and we get this question a lot, people will start to pill when they put their SPF or their foundation on. Right. That's because they have too much hyaluronic acid in their skin. So a lot of people will layer hyaluronic acids and
Stacy London (41:16)
Mm.
Lorrie King (41:20)
You don't want to have a hyaluronic acid cleanser and then use a hyaluronic acid serum, three types of hyaluronic acid serum like ours, and then put on a moisturizer with another hyaluronic acid. Like it's too much. Right. So you have to, you have to decide, do I strip it down to the cleanser, the toner, the serum? Is my skin hydrated enough? If it's not, then put on a moisturizer and then try a little bit because your skin will be
Stacy London (41:31)
Right.
and
Lorrie King (41:49)
It'll react. And at night, it's the same thing. You don't need another nighttime regimen unless you have very deep wrinkles and you need more of an occlusive barrier. And you want to use like an eye cream that's going to do that type of work at night to really seal in and hydrate. is a different, that's something different. But our product is just as effective.
Stacy London (42:06)
Money.
Lorrie King (42:17)
around the eyes and you don't need that much more, right? And just also Stacy, the key is that weekly regimen. That is the key. So that's right. Our friend Carla Hall uses that mask three times a week because she's what on air all the time. She's in makeup, heavy makeup. And if she sits in that chair and she doesn't use the mask, the makeup artist can tell because her makeup is cakey. And they will say,
Stacy London (42:20)
Right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (42:27)
Sunday mask.
Stacy London (42:39)
Mm-hmm.
Lorrie King (42:46)
When you're riding over in the Uber, make sure you put the mask on. She's called me. She's in the Uber with the mask on. Yes. Well, Sometimes, you know.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (42:54)
She really she wears the mask in the car. That's hilarious
That is so, I
had no idea that's so funny. Okay, I'm try that.
Stacy London (43:04)
I have, so I have a- Yes, exactly. I'm gonna try that too. But I have more to- I have-
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (43:08)
Why not?
Lorrie King (43:09)
Well, they're going to do it. They're cleansing your face when you get to the makeup artist. They're cleansing your face, right? So you have to show up ready for the makeup. They're not going to have time to do a facial, right? So they don't. They don't prepare the skin. They're not prepping the skin. You're under these hot lights and you've got cakey makeup.
Stacy London (43:15)
Right.
No, they don't.
Yes.
mean, I've to be honest that I've never, cakey makeup has never really been an issue for me. But I mean, I want to say that it certainly hasn't been since I've been using the Grown Up moisturizer. So now I don't know if it was cakey before. But I do, have more questions. First, I want to say I would like to volunteer to offer my insight on what your next product should be, which I do think is a tinted moisturizer.
Lorrie King (43:54)
Please do.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (43:56)
⁓ okay.
We've talked about it and it's on our list.
Stacy London (44:02)
Okay,
I would love to talk more about that, but I do also want to understand, we talked about the fact that the grown-up moisturizer has a patent, right? Why does it have a patent? What is the actual technology that allowed you to apply for a patent for skincare in the first place?
Lorrie King (44:10)
Yes.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (44:11)
Yes.
Well, it comes from, you we were talking about, collagen's going down, harlanic acid's going down, elastin's going down, but as I said, like a half an hour ago, all the different types of skin cells, there's like 30 or 40 different types, right? They're all, we're making less and less. And in the epidermis, your skin barrier, about 40 to 45 % of the skin barrier is these ceramide lipids, they're fats.
Lorrie King (44:19)
Hmm.
Stacy London (44:26)
no.
Mmm.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (44:43)
It's
the one time in your body you want to keep fat on your body, but there it is. It's drying up. It's going away. when you talk about elasticity, what is elasticity? I said it wrong, but you know what I mean. It's when it bounces back up. Right. And so it's how long does it take? Does it bounce back up? So we were talking with Joe, our scientist and some other people, and we were like, what can we do to
Lorrie King (44:46)
Yes.
Stacy London (44:56)
It's like the recovery.
Lorrie King (44:57)
I see.
The bounce, yeah.
Stacy London (45:02)
It's like it's deflated.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (45:12)
compensate for those loss in ceramides. And there are some very interesting actual ceramide products. The problem with it is that ceramides as a molecule are enormous. So when you put them on your skin, they sit here and it's better than nothing for sure, but they're not really getting in into all the layers of your epidermis, of your skin barrier. So that was our insight. How can we deliver healthy, safe, natural lipid
Stacy London (45:23)
⁓
So just to be clear.
Sorry.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (45:42)
deep into skin to restore that inherent bounce. So that's deep. So we're actually delivering into three layers of your epidermis with a rice bran oil that has been made so small. The emulsion is so tiny and it activates. So you put it on skin and it activates and it goes in.
Stacy London (45:46)
deeper than what
Lorrie King (45:47)
Deeper,
deeper.
Stacy London (46:03)
Yeah, think it's, what's interesting to me is that I don't think that people recognize just by putting something on your skin does not necessarily mean it's being absorbed. So this is what we were talking about ingredients versus delivery mechanism, right? Because you were saying this, that there, if, if ceramides were smaller, right? Or if they, you know, if they were good products, then they wouldn't just sit on top of your skin. The whole point is that they need to penetrate the skin.
Lorrie King (46:11)
Correct.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (46:15)
Delivery.
Lorrie King (46:27)
That's right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (46:27)
Do you remember
at all, mean, my mom bought back in the day this product from Elizabeth Arden that came in these little plastic capsules that you would break open. And they had ceramide. That was the very beginning of people recognizing that ceramides were part of skin. And, you know, the problem with the product is the delivery was kind of cool. It was really bad for the environment, these little plastic. But okay, let's not talk about that.
Lorrie King (46:37)
Paint capsules, yeah. Yeah.
Stacy London (46:37)
Yeah.
Right, the little...
Lorrie King (46:52)
Daily
plastic.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (46:55)
The thing is, is at the end of the day, it did something because your top most layer skin would take it on. And that was great, but it never got into the skin. therefore it couldn't, even though the desire was there, it could not ultimately affect your future skin health, your future skin strength, because it couldn't actually get to the place it needed to be. So that's the innovation behind our patent is this emulsion.
Stacy London (47:02)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (47:23)
allows for the lipid to become so tiny. It's like, I don't know, millionth of a hair width. I don't even know what it is. It's something called a kiladult and it's so tiny, I don't even know how to describe it, but allows it to go into skin naturally and kind of like sink in, you know? It's like filling up your...
Lorrie King (47:37)
Yeah. And that's why you feel a difference, Stacy, when
you use it. You've tried probably hundreds of products by now, right? I mean, exactly.
Stacy London (47:46)
my God, it's what I do now. I just go to my
bathroom and I try things on.
Lorrie King (47:51)
Exactly. And that's the key. A lot of things will sit on the skin. I think that was the biggest thing for me. And Celeste knows this because when my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and was undergoing chemo, I saw the dryness in her skin. Obviously, she had dry eye, dry mouth, all these things. And the eye drops worked and the dry mouth stuff worked, but the dry skin stuff didn't work.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (48:20)
Mm-mm.
Lorrie King (48:20)
It really
didn't, and there was no recovery. And even though she wasn't feeling well, she still wanted to look good. She still wanted to glow. She still wanted that. And that was important for her. And yet there weren't products, you know, a little more than 10 years ago that made her feel confident in that process that, you know, that she was going through. So I think that's so many of us.
Stacy London (48:27)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (48:46)
It's actually even scarier, Lorrie, I don't know if you remember, but you did find a product on and I'm not going to name names because I know that
Lorrie King (48:53)
Petroleum
Jelly, Vaseline.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (48:55)
there was a brand that was marketed and it's still out there specifically for cancer patients and dry skin and it has all kinds of fragrance in it and you know what it's actually close to harmful and it's devastating and ⁓
Lorrie King (48:59)
⁓ yeah.
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes.
Yeah. And
there are other products that have microplastics in them. You know, these masks that you see on TikTok where they're peeling them off. I'm like, what do you think that's made out of? Saran wrap. ⁓ And I mean, that's why we made our masks the way we did without, yeah, polyvinyl alcohol. Look it up. You'll see a lot of different products that are sitting. When you feel your skin, you're like, it feels so good. It's so smooth. Polyvinyl alcohol. yeah.
Stacy London (49:25)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (49:28)
It's following my fluoride. ⁓
Stacy London (49:42)
Really?
Lorrie King (49:43)
It's in some of the biggest brands out there.
Stacy London (49:46)
So let's just talk about this for one
second. Aside from the skin care, you mentioned the book before, and I just, can you hold it up again so people can see it? The ProAge Playbook is super, super, now I wanna understand, were you already planning the book when you were planning the company?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (50:04)
No, It happened because people would say to us, you know, I heard about around the country, we would kind of maybe talk about the annual Marvelous Mrs. Menopause. But you know, really, it's New York City and only 100, 150, maybe 200 women can make it right. And so people would say, well, how how can I learn about some of the things that you guys are thinking about and talking about in a way that isn't too hard?
Lorrie King (50:04)
No. ⁓
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (50:33)
Like, I don't want to a 250 page scientific treatise because I'm not a doctor. I'm not going to be a doctor. You know, I hated biology. Can you make this something that is understandable, digestible, usable, things that I can do, know, from simple to the complex. Give me a menu. And so that was kind of the genesis behind it.
Stacy London (50:34)
Yeah
I also like the fact that you're not saying there's one way. This is the other. Obviously, when things become popular or subject matter becomes popular, there's always this ⁓ inclination for people to tell you what to do, as opposed to nothing you find in
Lorrie King (51:04)
Correct. That's right.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (51:14)
Bye. ⁓
Lorrie King (51:15)
Yes, yes, yes.
That's what this helps you to get. You get this guy. There are some doctors, but there's podcasts. There are people who are proponents, this one. There's you. There are individuals. There are people who have been leading this conversation that we felt, know these. They're our partners. Let's highlight them. Let's talk about what we're doing and provide that resource to women. So that's really where it comes from.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (51:26)
This one! ⁓
Stacy London (51:27)
Get like this
now.
Right.
Lorrie King (51:45)
And we want it to be positive. That's why it says on the cover, I choose joy. You know, I'm evolving. Pro age.
Stacy London (51:49)
Yes. And just pro-age. Pro-age.
I don't know why there is any product in the world that doesn't say that. You know what mean? I can't, I can't with anti-aging. Everybody, I'm so sick of talking about it. I feel like people are bringing it up again and I'm like, why are we still here? So, okay. Last question, ladies and gentlemen.
Lorrie King (51:58)
Hahaha
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (52:10)
You know why we're
still here? I'm going to entice the advertising industry on this. Yes, men are trained and maybe men too, to be fair. We are trained as humans to type or say the word anti-aging and it becomes a fulfilling screwed up prophecy where you don't get any information unless you put in these horrible words. That's the truth. mean,
Lorrie King (52:14)
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Stacy London (52:14)
Yes! What do you think?
Lorrie King (52:25)
Yes, that's right. That's right.
It's about the psyche, right? It's about holding women back, keeping women back, and I believe. And ⁓ I think that whole psychology is meant to keep us, frankly, in our place. ⁓ And so the industry is trained on that. Now, what major beauty company has a female CEO?
Stacy London (52:42)
you.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (52:59)
Yeah. How about zero?
Stacy London (53:00)
Hello?
Lorrie King (53:01)
How about zero? And we had Cody with Tsunabi who was, ⁓ briefly, she was a, how do you call it?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (53:08)
Briefly, briefly.
No, she was okay. She can't, you know, I think that she went into a difficult situation, couldn't do that much with the situation.
Lorrie King (53:21)
Yeah. So I mean, you know, there really
aren't many. So what happens and you'll see a collapsing and consolidation of this in the industry. Women founders build brands and then they sell them. Right. So you have Joe Malone, you have Bobbi Brown, who now has Jones Road, who's touting her message. You have so many leaders. You have Sarah Kugelman that now has all is a Kugelman with all golden.
Stacy London (53:35)
⁓ Yeah.
Lorrie King (53:50)
You know, so you have these founders who are building these businesses and then they sell them, right?
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (53:58)
or they don't make it because there's no fun. Or there's fun.
Lorrie King (54:00)
or they don't make it, but you had, or
they buy them back like Carol's daughter did, you know, or, you know, but look at how well Briogeo has done. And you have all of these, these, these women who then they build these platforms and then they go do something else. Like the woman from Drybar, Ali, I mean, it's phenomenal what, what ⁓ women do to create wealth, to build up women in the communities. Even like, the one I love is the Spank story. She's amazing.
Stacy London (54:21)
Yes.
Lorrie King (54:30)
Hahaha! Far likely!
Stacy London (54:32)
Sarah Blasey, she's
sort of a golden child.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (54:34)
Makeup, shaving, cracks,
makeup.
Lorrie King (54:36)
And you
know where I got the idea where the name I didn't come up with the name Celeste, but I challenged Celeste because she's expert at naming to come up with a ⁓ K sound because she, you know, she talks about this in her podcast. She talks about. Yes, that's where I got it from. She talks about it in her podcast, the hard sound K.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (54:56)
⁓
I did not know that, all right.
Lorrie King (55:04)
and how it sells better in terms of believability and trust. She also talks about how she applied for a patent. Now, I tell you, she wrote her patent herself. A patent at my last company costs between 15 and $20,000. I met someone, an attorney in the pharmaceutical industry who writes patents. He liked me and Celeste so much that he did it.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (55:32)
he was so great.
Lorrie King (55:33)
for such a steal.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (55:35)
He was great.
We should send him a Christmas card. I don't think we sent him a Christmas card. I gotta get him.
Stacy London (55:38)
doesn't want to do things for new ladies.
Lorrie King (55:41)
We keep them around and we're going to go back and one day we'll be like, we're really super successful. Here's something. But he believed in us. And I think that is when people believe in your mission, they believe in you. The dream comes to life. And Celeste and I have been we've been plugging away. But anyway, I went off on a tangent.
Stacy London (55:46)
Here's something bright.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (55:58)
Well, he's
Stacy London (56:02)
No, but that's fine. I want it. Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (56:03)
really interesting about the patent. Here's a man who was in his 60s and he's done lots and lots of patents in pharmaceutical. And for him, this did not require a decade's worth of FDA testing and all that stuff. He was really interested in the underlying science and the purpose.
Lorrie King (56:08)
Yes.
Stacy London (56:24)
Yes,
yes.
Lorrie King (56:25)
Yes,
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (56:25)
and
he thought it was really valid or he wouldn't have gone and helped.
Lorrie King (56:26)
yes. Exactly. and Dr. Joe were able to speak the same language and it was like, yeah, this is patentable. And it was fast track, it was fast track. So when Sarah talks about this and you listen to her carefully, I kind of, she wrote the playbook. Thank you, Sarah.
Stacy London (56:34)
and
amazing.
Well, mean,
Sarah, if you're listening, thank you. ⁓ you know, great. Where do we go? You know, but I do think that you could... I want to end by asking you both, you know, we're very action-oriented here at Hello Menopause, and we want ⁓ the listeners to have something like to take away from this. Now, aside from reading the book, which I think is very important, ⁓
Lorrie King (56:51)
Yes, we're going to send this to her. We're going to send her care package along with this podcast. Hey, we've been trying.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (56:58)
you
Lorrie King (57:12)
Mmm.
Stacy London (57:17)
What are two things? So like, you one thing, should we have dermatologists on on speed dial? And if not, really, you know, what do we need to do to arm ourselves with enough information to make smart choices when it comes to skincare or any kind of menopausal aging care? This idea that we are going to do something consistently ⁓ and frequently. How do we, you know, what are the smartest steps for us to take? And it can be anything.
It could be a mind shift. I just want to end on the fact that I think that it's really important for people to have clear steps when it comes to changing something or getting more information into their lives. Where can they get it? What should they get from you? All of the things.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (58:01)
You know, there's actually a lot, might, some might argue an overabundance of information, ⁓ you know, very available on the internet. can look at, ⁓ very trusted. Don't know. I'm not really necessarily a pro AI person for this purpose. When you want to do your own little research, you don't have to do a lot. go to a trusted resource, a very well health. go to a birdie, you go to vote, you go to whatever you.
Lorrie King (58:11)
I'm gonna ask they I know
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (58:27)
feel like you go to a couple of places and do some reading. An easy way to figure it out is to put in the word dermatology or dermatologist plus menopause plus skincare and see what you come back with or dermatologist plus menopause plus bone health. Sorry, in bone health, I would add a different kind of doctor, right? So you just put it out there and you'll get hundreds of answers. Some of it is very, very solid. And if you just
say, okay, I'm going to give myself a break. I'm going to try a few products or a few changes in my lifestyle. I'm not going to be out in the sun between, don't know, 10 and two. And I'm going to actually have eight glasses of water and not all at once, you know, These are things that anybody can do at any point in time. There's no right or wrong. It's just a question of getting started. Literally just take a few minutes and scroll around and,
Stacy London (59:07)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (59:19)
take a few notes and say, can incorporate that into my life. It's all about feeling that you have agency for yourself and that's what cares about. We really want every woman to feel that she has agency for herself across anything. And then you listen, if you don't find what you like, do what some of those things that our customers do. They write to Lorrie and I, they literally write us questions. What do I do about this? I don't know what sunscreen to wear. We know that on your website you advise,
putting sunscreen over the moisturizer. How do I do that? And how do I go about knowing, how to hold versus, you know, organic, you know, what do I do? Who can I trust? Is it safe to buy skincare on Amazon? We get so many weird questions. What do I do about resuscitation? So you don't have to a dermatologist who can speak for a because not everybody, you know, I think that recently we were told that less than 10 % of women in the United States
Stacy London (59:50)
which sunscreen.
Lorrie King (59:51)
Yeah.
yeah, we name brands that we vet it.
Stacy London (59:58)
Mmm.
Lorrie King (1:00:03)
Yeah.
Stacy London (1:00:06)
But I think this is wonderful. Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:00:15)
ever see a dermatologist in their entire life, which actually I was a little surprised by, but I think it's because we live in New York and everybody in New York has a dermatologist. Okay, but a lot of people don't and that's okay. That doesn't mean you can't take care of your skin. can, and by the way, these days you can have a virtual appointment very inexpensively. ⁓ there are ways to get access to a doctor that doesn't mean that you have to live in Miami, LA, New York, Chicago, or whatever.
Stacy London (1:00:33)
Mmm.
Lorrie King (1:00:41)
Yeah. ⁓
Stacy London (1:00:41)
Mm-hmm.
And I think, you know, it's also interesting that, I mean, you're getting all of these questions from people who are investing. They're investing their time and their energy to learn something and really know what to do, again, to keep their skin healthy.
Lorrie King (1:00:55)
all the time,
all the time. And I think that as a woman, you just have to be your advocate. You have to advocate for yourself. sometimes you have to really dig into those professionals that you're googling, let's say. So I know that Celeste, you were saying, ⁓ put these three terms in here. You're going to come out with x.
Stacy London (1:01:05)
Mmm.
Lorrie King (1:01:25)
I challenge everybody to go into their medicine cabinet, pull out the brand that they're using, different brands across the category and ask AI, what company owns this brand? You know, who is behind what this brand is? Find out if you're actually supporting women that you believe in, a cause that you believe in. I'm not talking about, I'm not talking bad about
Stacy London (1:01:38)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Lorrie King (1:01:53)
the big companies. I'm just saying do more work to understand what you're putting on your body. Ask the questions about what chemical might be in here. Nowadays with AI you can ask these questions and I bet you know when you look at your different brands you'll be surprised.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:02:14)
Yes, I
Stacy London (1:02:15)
Yeah.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:02:16)
have a whole nother hour on ⁓
Lorrie King (1:02:17)
And let's not even talk about makeup because
Stacy London (1:02:22)
No.
Lorrie King (1:02:22)
there are people developing brands from Tmoo. Well, if there's lead in their milk from years ago, what do you think is in their makeup, people? Be careful. Fish scale? don't know. Plastics, right? So, you know, do your research and understand what you're putting on your body.
Stacy London (1:02:30)
Yeah, well no, no.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:02:38)
I'm going to put it more closely.
You cannot be buying makeup or skincare ever. It's not even for your four year old kid, their little nailed like party games. That's a big fat no. I'm, no. I stand by.
Lorrie King (1:02:45)
Right.
Stacy London (1:02:52)
And you stand by it.
Lorrie King (1:02:55)
We
stand by it. We stand by it. At least Alta is vetting. At least Credo is vetting. At least the floor is vetting. so if you're buying from individual brands that are not sitting on the shelves, then just do your research to better understand it. Yeah. And I think that most people don't think about, they go to Marshalls and they just pick up something and.
Stacy London (1:02:57)
They didn't.
Yeah.
to your homework.
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:03:18)
my god, I can't even
talk about the Marshalls thing. ⁓ my god, at Marshalls it was only $8.
Lorrie King (1:03:23)
Exactly, and then you're
like well. There's failing there's failing sulfates. There's all kinds of fates in here. Do know what's going on here?
Stacy London (1:03:30)
But I, you know, it's so interesting to me because I don't think that most people understand that just because something says it's moisturizing doesn't mean that it will be, right? That that's the difference between understanding the ingredients and the marketing, which could be any number of things. And, you know, I mean, I want to thank you so much for your time. We've already got so long. So I just I just have one question.
This is what I was saying, Lorrie, because you brought this up when you were saying about women entrepreneurs looking to Sarah Blakely as like, you know, the OG, things like that, creating wealth for one another. And then at the same time, also being aware of predators, right? Being aware of the people who are being extractive. And I think that, and there's that funny thing about like whether or not we're supposed to care about how we look, if we're being held to standards by a patriarchal lens.
Lorrie King (1:04:02)
Yes.
Yes.
Stacy London (1:04:23)
What I've understood from this conversation is really, A, you're not telling people what to do. You're giving them options and information that allow them to make choices for themselves. And that we have to encourage those people to make those individual choices so that they get the best possible care. And that there is a difference between inspiring women to help each other in order to create less of a wealth gap and the difference of ⁓ knocking each other down in order to make wealth.
Lorrie King (1:04:52)
Hmm
Stacy London (1:04:53)
Right? Those are the things that I'm like, I try to keep them as focused and separated in my mind as possible between, you know, a great company and a good company. A good company can make money, but a great company cares about the clients that they have. And I really think that that's, this is the kind of, you know, friction we're up against at the moment. What is good for you and what is good for them?
Lorrie King (1:05:19)
mean, listen, why would we start a company in our 50s?
Yes, we had a strong belief in what we're doing. know, Celeste and I have built, you know, these careers, you know, built companies, built, I've built over a billion dollars worth of sales for these big companies. We're doing this for a bigger purpose. And you can hear it. And that I think and women, women, that's why they keep coming back. And, you know, that's why we're still here. There are so many brands.
Stacy London (1:05:29)
If we could do something, yes!
Yes.
Yeah.
Lorrie King (1:05:58)
last year in particular that got hit by higher cost, higher tariffs, reduced sales. We've had reduced sales as well, but we came in even, thank God. And that's a big accomplishment for us after the year that so many other brands had. I talked to brands that are down 40%, Sephora level brands, 20%. We, at the beginning of last year, were suffering in that way because women were holding on to their money.
Stacy London (1:06:02)
Yeah.
Wow. I'm.
Lorrie King (1:06:27)
They were afraid women were losing their jobs. They were canceling their subscriptions and they were not buying anything. And then they started coming back and it was our subscribers and the people who believed in us have kept us here. So we try to give as much as we can to them as well.
Stacy London (1:06:44)
Mmm.
Yes, think a reciprocal relationship works for me. It really does. Brands having a reciprocal relationship with their clients, that actually means something today. I really believe that. And I just want to thank you so much. Wonderful conversation.
Lorrie King (1:07:02)
No, thank you!
Celeste Lee - Caire Beauty (1:07:04)
This has been amazing. Thank
you. Thank you to Let's Talk Metapause. Thank you.
Lorrie King (1:07:06)
Yes. Yes, that's right.
Stacy London (1:07:09)
It's always, it is really my pleasure. I really, believe that you are on such a mission to support women and I love supporting you.
Lorrie King (1:07:16)
⁓ thank you so much, Stacy, for having us. And thank you, Let's Talk Menopause, for being such an amazing partner.
