Opening Disclaimer and VO (Stacy)

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Hey friends! The views of our guests do not necessarily reflect the views of Let's Talk Menopause. Let's Talk Menopause does not provide medical advice. The content in this podcast is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions that you may have.

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Welcome to Hello Menopause. I'm your host, Stacy London. Hello Menopause is changing the conversation around menopause. In every episode, we explore the physical, emotional, and mental changes that women experience during this transformative stage in life.

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Stacy (00:00)

Hello and welcome to this special episode of Hello Menopause sponsored by Secret Deodorant. We're so thankful for their sponsorship and support. If you don't already listen to Hello Menopause, it is a podcast hosted by me and produced by Let's Talk Menopause. There are so many great episodes that you can go back to and listen to whenever you like. Find it and subscribe.

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I'm here with Tamsen Fadal, whose new book, How to Menopause, is coming out. And I want to talk to you a little bit about confidence. Confidence and menopause are not an easy mix. What do you think about when you think about how to face change and be confident in facing change? Like, you know, I say menopause is a reckoning and a renaissance. How would you describe it?

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Tamsen (01:34)

You're so right about that. You know, I didn't realize it all went together like that. I really didn't. I think I played whack-a-mole with my symptoms for such a long time when I looked up and I went, wait, something is still bothering me. And I think you and I spoke about this at one point. I kept saying, now what? Like, now what am I supposed to do? Now what? I feel like there's something more pulling me and I just couldn't figure out what it was.

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And ⁓ about a year and a half ago, I walked away from a career, the only career I'd known for my whole life. And so was a huge change. And I think that I was more open to it because I had gone through this stage of life and I had dealt with a lot of things that were very frustrating. And I went through some dark times, quite frankly, in perimenopause, but I didn't even realize we're attributed to that. But for me, change has been really encouraging and exciting, but it doesn't come without its fears. I had a lot of fears too.

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Married at the age of 50 for a second time. I never thought that would happen. I left a career. It was the only career I knew. I never thought that would happen. I mean, we had a world's menopause party. I never thought that would happen. So I think change ⁓ is exciting, but I think it can be scary. And I think the way that you describe it is incredible. But I've never seen more women of this age go through change than I have recently. And their stories are pretty incredible.

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Stacy (02:50)

I mean, it's very interesting to me. We met because of men. Right. We heard Tracy introduced us. Shout out to Marta. But one of the things that I find so interesting is that you have been able to take that experience and actually turn the experience that you had into ⁓ becoming sort of like, you know, the poster child for what midlife and menopause can be. And I don't think one, that's not by accident. You're the hardest working person I know. But I also think that it really requires a lot of, what's the word I'm looking for? It requires a lot of kind of seeing life through a new lens, I think, and your perspective changes, right? I remember I used to go to the gym all the time to try and lose weight. And now I go to the gym because I want to walk when I'm 85. I want to be strong. And that shift in perspective was the thing that really made me recognize how lucky I am, how lucky we are to be doing any of this.

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One of the things that I found so frustrating in perimenopause was what my body was doing, not just what my head was doing. My body was changing every day and it was whack-a-mole symptoms. was like, I remember standing in a photo studio and while I was talking, it looked like I had taken a shower. I had such a bad hot flash that my hair was wet, that my scalp was wet, that I looked like I had to take off my clothes. I was mortified. ⁓ I no idea. And there are some symptoms, you know, we say there are common symptoms, but there are over what, 100?

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Tamsen (04:24)

Yeah, there's 100 plus symptoms now. I think when we first started talking about it, we were hearing like 34 symptoms. But there's been some research and studies done now that we're tracking about 103 symptoms. But it doesn't surprise me when I think about how estrogen impacts every area of your body. Now that I understand that, now that I understand we're talking about so many different areas, that makes sense to me.

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Stacy (04:46)

And, know, it's funny because, right, like some of the things that we talk about, think when I thought of estrogen, I was like, it's a sex hormone or something. I didn't know what it was. Right. I was I was like completely in the dark. But because our receptors for estrogen are everywhere in our body, that's why I couldn't put anything together. Joint pain and hot flashes, body odor and brain fog.

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When would you you would have to do mental gymnastics to be able to explain what's happening like heart palpitations? So how do you listen to your body? How do you get in tune enough? Because as women I feel that we have never really been taught to feel safe in our own bodies. My friend Latham Thomas told me this years ago and I bring it up all the time because I was afraid when I got my period.

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I was afraid about getting pregnant and I was afraid of menopause because I was never taught to feel safe. So how do you get in touch with your body and what kind of symptoms are presenting?

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Tamsen (05:49)

Yeah, it's interesting because I think about that sometimes because I don't think I was in touch with my body for a long time. It just kind of was like the vehicle I used to get around. Yeah, that's really what it was. I just kind of, you know, as long as it operated enough, as long as I got just enough sleep or worked out just enough to make up for whatever I ate. That was that was how I went all through my 20s, my 30s. Sleep was a luxury. You know, I think now I don't have a choice because I know where I want to be in 10, 15, 20, 25 years. I often look at my 85 year old father, he can like sit down on the floor and get up without using his hands. And I just go, what? But I know it's because he goes to the gym three times a week. I know it's because he actually pays attention to everything that's going on. has any kind, he's always paying attention to all of those symptoms. I'm learning how to do that. You know, I'm learning how to listen to what I need and don't need. I'm learning how to stop feeling guilty if I need to take a nap. I'm learning how to feel okay if I ate something I wasn't supposed to and wasn't high protein, because sometimes that just happens.

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⁓ I'm learning to understand that I am going to have some of these symptoms and I have to do something about it and not wait six months and then figure it out and figure out how to deal with it at some time down the line. Because some day is today. And this is the day that you have to pay attention to that stuff.

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Stacy (07:00)

And do you think that that is part of your menopause education was recognizing that shift, right? mean, that is also one of the things that I think is so important is this idea that we're not in touch with our bodies. at a certain point, we have to deal with them because it's about longevity. It's not just about, you know, partying all night in your 20s and you can get up and go to work the next day. You start to feel differently. And I also think there's a kind of maturity to understanding like what your body is saying to you today. There are subtle and not so subtle changes, right, in menopause. And I think even that the idea that half lashes, night sweats are start in your brain. What are you talking about? I'm just hot. I'm just hot. It's like hot in here.

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Tamsen (07:45)

Yes, but we've talked about it before. I, you know, it's interesting. I knew I didn't understand at the time. You I lost my mother to breast cancer. I know, I know, know that she was 51 years old and I was 20 at the time, but I was 14 when she got sick. So it was just, you know, that was that was kind of what always was a cloud over my head. I was always thinking about breast cancer and that was what was going on. And when she was actually going through her treatments, at one point she was hot all the time sweating and we would all laugh like she would laugh I would love with the whole family would laugh my brother my dad we don't what's going on I don't know that she knew what was going on then fast forward all these years later you know 31 years later and as I started to research for the documentary and started to look up things for the book did I only realize that wow she went through a double mastectomy she went through radiation chemotherapy she was induced early into menopause as a result of what went on with that.

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She was in menopause all by herself and alone and lonely. And so, you I didn't know what that looked like at all. Never had anybody to talk to about it. And it's really been through community that it has made a big difference. And I didn't understand that word either, quite frankly. Yeah. And I really didn't. I didn't understand that our friendship, we met years ago when we were in pencil skirts. Well, you were in the pencil skirt. I don't know that I ever got into a pencil skirt. You were in a pencil skirt. But. ⁓

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Stacy (09:07)

I'm skinny jeans.

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Tamsen (09:11)

But all those years ago, and then to re-meet and to be able to talk about these things and what's developed in this community, it means something to me. It really means something to me.

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Stacy (09:21)

would not agree with you more. I was just talking about this backstage that, you know, to consider, first of all, that we grew up in the, you know, compete, don't collaborate generation. ⁓ I think is one thing that I really, really, truly regret ⁓ because I look at my women friends now and those friendships are so important. And the honesty, not playing at like, ⁓ isn't my life perfect? Even on Instagram, but to really be able to talk to each other, to be honest with each other.

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Tamsen (09:36)

Yeah, me too.

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Stacy (09:51)

has taken away what I consider to be the worst symptom in perimenopause, which was the shame. The shame of smelling bad. Like I would come home from work and I would not know what had happened to me. I was like, is there a skunk in my apartment? How did this happen in Brooklyn? I mean, I know we raccoons, but you know, those are the things that I didn't know I could say out loud and not, and also joke around about and not feel like, all this terrible shame. ⁓ my God, I'm no longer biologically able to have children. Well, guess what? I didn't want them. There are people who go through a real stage, I think, of grief that we have to respect and acknowledge. And we're able to do that in community so we feel safe to be able to talk about

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Tamsen (10:30)

Yeah, there are conversations that I never had. remember, I'm going to go back to the smell real fast. I used to wear these sheath dresses. I anchored the evening news for a long time. yes, you did. I just had a closet of sleeveless dresses in any color you could find so that Monday through Friday, five days a week, four weeks out of every month, I had a different color on when you had turned on the news. It was purple. It ⁓ uniform.

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Stacy (11:04)

It was blue, purple, it red. I remember because in your new closet, there's a corner that is just dedicated to the newsroom dresses. And it's It's the archive.

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Tamsen (11:10)

But you know, I would come home from work like that. I'd actually go to the bathroom in between commercial breaks. I'd be like, my gosh, it's not my co-anchor, it's me. And then I would stick paper towels under my arm. I mean, I did everything. It was embarrassing. And there was the shame wrapped up in all of it. And so I think there's a lot of those different areas that once we start to talk about them, that makes another area a lot easier to talk about. I agree. I really think that that's what happens.

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Stacy (11:43)

And one of the things about, I guess, this conversation and what you stand for is really about, I call them prepare tactics, right? I remember a millennial said that I was using scare tactics to talk about menopause. And I was like, no, no, I want you to know what's coming. So how can we start to make a self care arsenal? How do we start to look for tools that even if they're small?

that we feel like we have more agency over what's happening to us.

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Tamsen (12:13)

Yeah, I think that's I think it's so important to think about because I think that at this age, I feel like anyway, that I got this big to do list of all the stuff I have to do now. eat more protein. I get a strength train instead of cardio. I got it. You know, there's a lot of stuff. And I am a list maker. But if I had known some of this and I was younger or when I leading up to this, then I wouldn't have been asking what lifestyle changes I should be making now because I would have already made them. Yes. So now I would be just dealing with maybe I'd be dealing with hot flashes. Maybe I'd be dealing with, you know, the lack of sleep or maybe I would deal with that.

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So I guess I always think when I look at like the different buckets of things, there are some stuff you're probably not going to be able to deal with, right? Until you're in perimenopause. But there's other stuff that you can deal with way before that. You can deal with lifestyle changes. You can go to sleep and figure out your sleep schedule. You can have good sleep hygiene. You can look at how you're eating. You can look at what supplements you're taking, how you're using your mind and your body. And I got to tell you, the stress that I put myself under, and we've had this discussion too. But the stress that I put myself under and the grace I didn't give myself for a long time, I don't know that I could ever make up for, but I certainly try to every day.

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Stacy (13:18)

Yeah, I mean, you know, I agree with you so much about that idea of the grace under pressure. Well, it would be a lot easier to have grace under pressure if you knew that a Mack truck was about to hit you. You could step out of the way. But if you don't know, right, then it really is so difficult. And again, I believe that Gen X's legacy is going to be what we have done for women's health. And, you know, I think about the toolkit that I am building in terms of things that I know, right? Like, you know, here we are and, you know, we're talking about body odor, right? I know that I can make sure that I have the proper deodorant. I know that if I'm going to have hot flashes at night, do I have the right sheets? Do I have the right pajamas? Am I getting enough? Sleeveless pajamas. nobody's arms. But you know, I think it's also really interesting that you talk about this idea. It's almost like you have to forgive yourself for what you didn't know.

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Tamsen (14:20)

Of course. Of course. And I think every time I talk to somebody or talk to a woman or we go up and compare stories, because that's what it is now, right? I feel like more and more we're like...

Hi, I'm 54 and I'm in menopause. And that's kind how we all greet each other. But there are things we don't know and there's stuff I'm learning every day too. Every time there's a new question or a new post that comes up or there's a new study that comes up, there's a lot of stuff I learn every single day. I learn from you all the time. We've talked about style, we've talked about fashion, we've talked about how it changes and how it's okay and it doesn't make your lesson because you're not able to wear the... ⁓ know, four inch heels and wear them all day long. I mean, I feel like I've learned a lot and I feel like I like that and I feel okay with it. And I don't feel like because I'm not who I was when I was 25 years old that I'm not relevant anymore. And that is how I went into this time. In my mid forties, I had gone through a really messy divorce. ⁓ was kind of very competitive in my career because I came from a career that was a...

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Like always kind of like you're lucky to be here as you're aging. And so I think I went into this stage like very scared and nervous and unsettled. And so I feel so different on this other side of things, which is really nice, which is what I hope for younger women, which is what I hope for women that are in their thirties and forties hearing this conversation now. So they're not going, my gosh, this is going to be this terrible time for me, but hey, I know what to expect. And we're going to go into that and we're going be able

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Stacy (15:51)

And I think that if you know, then it takes away a lot of fear. So this idea that, you know, we have as a community started this conversation with each other. And in some cases, I feel like it's an echo chamber, right? We've got to get the word out. You've got to tell two friends and she's got to tell two friends. And it's like a Brett commercial. You know, we're back in business. But it is this real ⁓ symbolism of sisterhood. You know, I don't know another way to describe it. There has not been a significant movement like this that I consider to be a feminist. It's such a long time. And really, when we talk about, you you're so good in the book about breaking down all of these different factors in our lives, because it's not just what you're going through physiologically, right? I read an article in Scientific American that said 45 to 55 is the lowest point of happiness in a woman's life. I was like, What? Well, highest rate of divorce, highest rate of depression, highest rate of decreased earning potential. So I'm like, that's not by accident. Hello, menopause.

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Tamsen (17:01)

Yeah, absolutely. Hello, Metabox.

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Stacy (17:03)

Like if you're not talking about the problems that you're having with sex and intimacy, your relationship is going to break up. If you are feeling irrelevant, you're going to feel depressed. If you are being told that you're lucky to be here because of your age, then you're going to be afraid you won't be able to support yourself. And that to me makes perfect sense. So we also have to look at the light, what life is throwing at us. Right. How do we prepare financially? How do we prepare in terms of ⁓ our tribe? making sure that our friends and family can support us through this journey. And, I know your husband, Ira, and he has been an incredibly supportive person, not just in letting you run and like make this book, this documentary, this insane party where 60,000 people signed on to watch us talk about all these different facets. Has having his support been helpful to you? Has having your brother's support, your dad's support.

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Tamsen (18:04)

Yeah, absolutely. know, I ⁓ have a very small family. You know, I lost my mom, my brother, and I got very, very close with my dad. And that was kind of it. It was the three of us for a very, very long time. I have a sister-in-law that ⁓ is a sister to me. Like, I consider her a sister and my nephew. But that's it. So when Ira came into the picture, you know, I was very hesitant at first. I was like, well, I don't know. I don't know I can open my heart again. But gosh, the support of family and the support of him ⁓ seeing me for who I am and not fearing change in me because I've definitely changed. Hiding when I'm having like a fit or panicky about something that he does very well. And just accepting my crazy every once in a while is really nice, you know, it's really nice. And ⁓ I think I never knew that that was possible for me. I really didn't. ⁓ My career was a big part of my life.

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I had a very difficult relationship and I thought, I'm never doing this again. But the fact we've been together now for a number of years and we got married about almost four years ago. And like, I now understand what it means to have found somebody that I walked the earth with. Like I never said those kinds of things before. If somebody said that, I'd be like, ugh. Gross. Don't say that. But you know, but I understand that because I think that that's what a real partner is. So yes, you know, I think that sometimes he completely, he's like, you're having a world's hottest, what do you do there? I'm like, I don't know, but we're gonna do it. So I, yeah, I'm really grateful for that. But I also think that my mindset was prepared for that. I don't know if he had come into my life 10 or 20 years ago that I would have been prepared for that because I wasn't who I am today. And I didn't accept myself.

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Stacy (19:53)

That's that's the key. I think this is actually the most incredible thing about age is that you become so much more self accepting. You start to set your own boundaries and your own standards rather than needing the kind of external validation that we do need when we're younger. Right. I mean, we all need it because we don't know who we are. Most incredible thing about turning 50 for me was like, I I know who I am. I did not know that. And you are allowed to change and still be aware of that change and of who you are while you're changing. Right. These are all things that I think are so important for people to hear. And when you say that you found somebody to walk the earth with that you couldn't probably have seen 20 years ago, that really says to me, ⁓ my God, we are in our prime. Why would we walk away from this conversation? And I had a very funny ⁓ older ⁓ woman who's in her 80s who ⁓ said to me, God, Stacey, every woman who gets to middle age thinks she's rewriting the book on middle age. And I'm like, actually, Tamsen is.

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But we're talking about this in new and different ways without fear, without fear of repercussions. ⁓ Let's talk a little bit about menopause in the workplace, because, you know, one out of 10, I think it's four out of 10 women think about leaving their job during menopause. One out of 10 women will. And for me, those are very scary statistics that can be used against us.

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Tamsen (21:27)

Absolutely, they are. They're frightening statistics. A lot is starting to evolve, which I'm grateful for. But you when I was at my former job, I went into HR and I said, hey, we need a workplace policy on menopause. And they're like, what now with that menopause? What are you talking about now? And I said, well, we need to be aware of it. Like, we just...

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Just the bare, just the low hanging fruit is we need to be aware of it for women that are in the workplace, that are at the height of their career, that are at this age where they want to do more, where they've got so much wisdom, they've got so much experience, they've got so much to give, and oftentimes feel, like I felt, lucky to be there. And you know, so I really, think that part of all of this movement that we're seeing and why all of us have to work together on it, it can't just happen in the doctor's office. It doesn't end there.

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It goes to the boardroom, it goes to the bedroom, it goes way beyond that, it goes in all these other areas that are alive. So workplace is really important. The UK has been very far ahead of us in terms of implementing workplace policy years ago. We know that they did that Channel 4 in the UK and I think that that really inspired me to continue to have the conversation here when we did the documentary, The Factor, we talked to two very different organizations that had implemented policy that hadn't even thought about it until women came forward. And so I've been excited to hear a lot of different companies coming forward, ⁓ being open about having the conversation, being open about what it means, because it means different things. If you have a factory, what uniforms might be what you're talking about there. If you have an office building, you're talking about temperature controls, you might be talking about flexible working hours.

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So we're talking about being able to help support a lot of different women and not have it work against us. And that's why we need all the voice.

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Stacy (23:10)

Yeah. And so all of those voices, I just want to go back to this idea of community, because in terms of, ⁓ you know, toolkit, right, that tool of building and having a community is one that I didn't think was going to be realized. You I always thought, it's going to be it's going to seem like we're all friends, but we're all mean girls underneath. And it's going to be like, you know, we really haven't experienced that at this stage of our lives. And I feel like

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What does the word community actually mean to you now?

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Tamsen (23:42)

Yeah. Well, I'll tell, let me go back to what it meant before. Before, I had no idea. I thought it was like whoever I was working with at the time or like a couple of my friends that maybe I walk Central Park with. That was kind of what community was to me. And I think now I really see what it has probably or was supposed to mean all along.

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And I think it's having people that you know are in this circle. It doesn't mean you talk to them every day. It doesn't mean that you have to be with them 24-7, but that you know you can pick up the phone and rely on. And they're almost like what we used to say our best friend is, but there's a whole bunch of them now. And I really do feel that. You know. I think I'll text you out of nowhere after a week or two, and I'll be like, I need blah, blah, blah. And then you'll answer right back, like, I love you in here. And I think that's community, though. And I think that knowing that, and I've seen this too, I've seen this work where you don't know somebody, but they understand what you're going through in this stage and they help you regardless of not even knowing you, but understanding what's going on with you. And that's where community gets really interesting to me. It gets really interesting.

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Stacy (24:44)

Because that's when I mean, I remember at the hottest menopause party, we were talking to people in Jamaica and in India. Yeah. Like that is community when you are actually getting people across the globe to speak the same language. Right. And for me, I think about that is when something resonates, you don't want to hold on to it. You want to share it. You want to give it to more and more people to be able to do. And, know, I think it's so important. ⁓ I remember also, you know, you had Halle Berry speak who was very open about her story, which was bizarre and crazy, and I hope that doctor is no longer practicing. I think about those things, and I think about the power of public figures when it comes to eradicating shame and fear. And it's really not been for such a long time. I I think about Jane Fonda and her activism, But what we...are really trying to do. think what Naomi is trying to do, what Hallie is trying to do is about a kind of activism in the healthcare space. It is. And that it is so much, and this is why it wasn't until I realized that menopause was about my health that I could actually think about my style differently. Does that make any sense?

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Tamsen (26:01)

No, it totally does. It totally does.

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Stacy (26:03)

I started to think about my body differently and taking care of my body differently and paying attention to what my body was saying to me. And all of a sudden I was like, if I can listen to that, then that little insecure girl who's like, you can't wear that. You're too old to wear that. Started to go away. And it started to change my entire philosophy around fashion and telling people, you don't have to obey my rules. You have to find your own rules and let me be helpful to you instead of hurtful.

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Tamsen (26:36)

I want to say how much change you have made too though. And we really do need to talk about that because you have put yourself out there, you've put your story out there. ⁓ You've gone back and said, I'm not telling you what not to wear anymore. I'm telling you wear whatever you want. Women have grown up with you, Stacey. And so to see you talking about this in such an open, honest, raw way gives all of us permission to be able to do that. And that's a big deal. And know it's not always easy to receive.

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But I need you to receive that because it's really true and it means something. And it means something when somebody says, hey, Stacey London was talking about menopause. I'm like, I know.

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Stacy (27:15)

I do receive that and I thank you very much for it. And I will tell you that again, I thought perimenopause was the end of my life. I thought I wasn't going to make it. to come out the other side. And I feel this is true for you, too. Knowing that all of the things that I did when I was young, when I was younger, I did for a reason and that they had their purpose. But now I am so sure in the knowledge of who I am that I can say, hey, you know what? I've evolved. I don't want to tell you what to wear.

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I want to help you find what you love to wear. That's a very different mindset. And I think the same way that you can be proud to talk about menopause, how to do it, how it matters at your age when you were told you're lucky to be here. screw that. mean, now you've created the vertical that you thought was going to get you kicked out of being in the public eye.

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Tamsen (28:07)

Yeah, think I think so. So many parts of that made me so frustrated when I look back and I think about what women have endured for a very long time, you know, not not just at 50, but at 40 and at 30 and at all these different times. And, you know, I want to talk about where that mindset came from, because I was in my 30s, maybe early 30s, and I was working in Philadelphia and a woman who was my mentor, but about 10 to 15 years older with me said, Listen, I just want you to know when you start getting to be 40, 45, they're not going to want you anymore. You don't see a lot of young, you know, older women in TV sitting next to a younger guy, you see just the opposite. And then I couldn't stop seeing that, of course. Of course. But what I was excited about when I walked away about 15 months ago is that I was the older woman sitting next to the younger guy. And I thought that that was just so cool. There's a ⁓ ship.

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Stacy (28:52)

I mean, but that's how much it's changed. And listen, I also think it's because we don't have haircuts like Edith Bunker. Do you know what I mean? Like we've come a long way, babies. You know what I'm saying? It's like, look better, we're healthier. have, you know, we got cosmetic dermatology.

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Tamsen (29:03)

We have Stacy London as a stylist.

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Stacy (29:11)

Me as a stylist. And that's the thing. Like I, it brought me back around to identity. This is all about identity. And I think that, you know, when I'm looking at all of my notes, one of the things that we were talking about was you were saying it doesn't stop in the doctor's office, but it actually has to start there. Right. It's it's advocating for yourself because you know that if a doctor dismisses you, I used to be such a people pleaser that I was like, ⁓ OK. ⁓

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Tamsen (29:39)

Sorry I bothered you.

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Stacy (29:40)

I'm so sorry, it's just menopause and there's nothing I can do about it, okay. And I would stay, I was sleeping four hours a night, I had hot flashes, joint pain, brain fog, I could not function until I started to advocate for myself. How did you feel about that? Then did it make it easier for you once you recognized that advocacy was such a big part of this, that you could go out and talk about it in all of these different areas?

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Tamsen (30:05)

Yeah, I didn't. I didn't realize what was happening. I don't think of the time. So when I when I went and saw my doctor and I eventually got the diagnosis, I had four words in the patient portal. You know, I logged on to it. I was actually with my now husband, then boyfriend, and it said in menopause, any questions? And it was a dot dot dot. Questions. And so I was like, what? As if like, hey, get back to me if it's a problem for you. And ⁓ I thought, well, this that doesn't I just went that doesn't make sense. And I went down this just real rabbit hole thinking,

How could I be a menopause even though I was 49 right around the average age? And how could this be happening? what, I thought this happened in your seventies. That's what I no idea. I mean, just to...

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Stacy (30:45)

Edith Bunker reference, I said for a reason, because we grew up with Archie and Edith. And the reason that I thought about it was because I thought she was in her 70s when I was a kid. was 47. Stapleton was 47. I know you think about that hair. I mean, just everything about it. was like, so there was that one episode where she yells at Archie and she's going through the change. And so for me, it was always older women. don't consider being in your 50s old. It doesn't even occur to me now. Like when 20 year olds say to me, God, one day I'm going to be 50. I'm like, damn, if you're lucky, you get to be 50. It's the best. at that, you know, there was such a misunderstanding about that. Right. So how did you start advocating for yourself?

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Tamsen (31:36)

Yeah, you know, I think after that happened, I was very frustrated and I thought, well, I to go find somebody else. did research. That's what I knew how to do. Everything I ever did was, you know, research. I was a journalist for I don't know how many years. And and that's what I did in this space. And I remember I remember I saw the number it was in 2020. I saw that one billion women were going to be in menopause by 2025. And I was like, what? That's a lot. That seems like a large number of women. And I started making phone calls, asking questions calling doctors randomly. I didn't know anybody. I didn't know doctors. I could barely get a hold of my own doctor. You know, I didn't know anybody. And I realized like, wow, this is crazy. Like, how it can't just be me. And bit by bit, I started talking to different people, talked to my documentary, now documentary producers, then women that I was introduced to, and realized like, ⁓ we have to do something about this. And that's kind of where that conversation started. And I think we came together as a community. We came together in groups. A lot of my... ⁓a lot of my advocacy is on social media. I I went on there the first time and did a just read 34 symptoms of menopause. That's all I did. And ⁓ and I remember like that got all these comments and I was so scared to press the button to like publish. They actually did it on tick tock first because I was like, I don't know that many people on tick tock. So if this goes really wrong, really fast, I can pull it down and nobody at work will see it. And then I realized like, wow, there's this whole community that wants to talk about this. And then I went over to Instagram and this kind of

It opened my eyes as to what women wanted to talk about.

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Stacy (33:07)

Well, you know, I consider you to be the big sister of the Internet because truly, I mean, Tamsin is everybody's big sister. You can go to her on Instagram. You can go to her on TikTok. I remember when you had 2000 followers on Instagram. Now you have millions and millions of followers because, you know, there's something so amazing about leading with authenticity and leading with your heart. You knew that this was happening. We knew that this was happening and why weren't we talking about it with everybody? Why weren't we looking for solutions instead of just suffering?

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Tamsen (33:38)

I know I was scared to talk about it at first so I'll be honest I was scared that me doing this would not be a smart idea because of my career because my career was basically based around you know looks and all this stuff so I was very nervous and I kept thinking gosh are they gonna think like I can't do my job because of this can you imagine how warped that thinking is and that's the thinking that made me look at the workplace and go we have to change that because if that's been my narrative that's gotta be other women's narrative. And it definitely is. And I think that shift's happening.

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Stacy (34:10)

I think it's resonating because of your leadership in this area and you have to receive that. And I think that part of that is really also, you know, I feel very strongly about actionable items. Yeah. If you had to name three things that somebody who's like, ⁓ I think I'm perimenopausal or, ⁓ I haven't had my period in maybe it's a year. Right. So you're post menopause. Then what would you say? the first three things somebody has to do are. And that could be a product, that could be calling your doctor. What are actionable items that people can take away from this and know they can do?

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Tamsen (34:49)

Yeah, I mean, I do think you need to have your toolkit. There's no question about that. And I do think we've hit on some of those things. I think sleep is a really big one. I think you've got to get that under control. And that sleep hygiene doesn't have to start in the doctor's office. That can start at home with however you want to do it. If it's how to go to bed at the same time, how to get up at the same time in the morning, reduce all that light at night, get to bed earlier without scrolling, wear something cool to bed, get that sleep under control. When it comes to body, we've talked about body odor with talked about the other yeah, you know that's that it's no secret. That's a real thing it's a real thing and it does bring embarrassment does bring shame. And then I would also say that you've got a look at some of the other areas and I think that that comes in the form of nutrition comes in in strength training and I know that's for but those are those listen to that would.

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Stacy (35:36)

You can take four instead of three. Right, people? I I feel like the more actions you can take, the better. And, you know, it's very interesting. You and I both know Dr. Shelby, ⁓ who is a sleep doctor. And she was talking to me about the fact that it really is that sleep is the most important thing. Food, nutrition and exercise are based on how much sleep you're getting. So it's not the trifecta. It's that sleep comes first and then you can worry about nutrition and and exercise.

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So that was a ⁓ mind blower for me because I am not a great sleeper.

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Tamsen (36:10)

She's really brilliant. I think she brings it down to just very basic levels and made it easy for me to follow along versus, you've got to go do a sleep study first. All these things that were too complex for my head at the time and really kind of drilled it down, but really did make me understand how to prioritize that because I had it reversed. I had it that the exercise and the nutrition and all the other stuff, and then I'd work out my sleep a little bit later on. So she really did help prioritize that for me so I understood what I should be looking at.

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Stacy (36:45)

Yeah, mean, she did it for me, too. I really was like mind blown. I didn't sleep for years before. I four hours a night before I went on HRT and I or MHT. I I fought tooth and nail to go on hormones when I was told for reasons that had nothing to do with breast cancer that I couldn't go on. was autoimmune stuff. It was that my mom had had a stroke and I was like, this is not this is not. Yeah, I cannot live this way. It's it's this or I will not make it that I finally was able to get on hormones and I get eight hours of sleep a night. I prioritize that. I make sure that all of the things that I can control, including my style, are things that are about me controlling the narrative of who I am. So you don't have any ⁓ misunderstanding when you meet me. You know who I am when you meet me. And that took me a long time to actually realize to really be the person that I am meant not just letting go of who I was, but knowing that I made mistakes and recognizing my own trauma and not ⁓ projecting that onto other people and taking responsibility for my actions. Those are things that I think when you are insecure and young and afraid, you cannot do.

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Tamsen (38:02)

It's impossible. I want to say something about...style because I think it's important and I know that sometimes it's ⁓ not up at the top of things, but I do think that confidence has to be up at the top of things. And I think that that comes in there. And I think because in the world that we live in, that's not always the priority for women in midlife. That's not always what, you know, we're thumbing through social media all the time and we can look at a 20 year old, we can look at a 30 year old, you know, so then we're in the comparison game. And so I do really think and I do hope that the media starts to pay attention a little bit more to these things. And I've seen it. We see a lot of midlife influencers now. We see a lot of women in fashion that are midlife and are changing this game of fashion, of style, of what's important. I put fashion in the book because I'm sorry, it's a part of menopause. It really is. is. Hair, skin, make all of it is a part of it.

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Stacy (38:52)

I completely agree. will say that, you know, we talked about style for your book. And one of the things is that, again, that is part of looking through a different lens. Right. That is about a perspective shift. It's not about what other people want from you. It's about what you want from yourself and how you build your own confidence. You build your own confidence. Lisa was saying this earlier. You build your own confidence every time you make a good choice. Every time you make a good choice, then you can recognize that you can trust yourself. I think perimenopause really robbed me of the perspective that I could trust myself. But now, we're living in a different world.

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Tamsen (39:37)

I know, I know. I Carla Hall said it at the World's Hottest Menopause Party, like, she's, these women, when I meet them, I feel their energy. It's exciting. It's a different world. And I'm excited to be a part of it.

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Stacy (39:49)

Well, you're a leader in it and we are so happy to have you on the podcast. you know, mean, this is an endless conversation between us. I feel like we were growing up together.

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Tamsen (39:59)

I know, I like that. I like you, friend.

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Stacy (40:01)

I like you friend. Thank you so much.

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Tamsen (40:04)

Thanks, Stacy.

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Stacy (40:15)

Thank you so much to everybody for being here. This is so amazing. You've been here all day. You've heard about the aspect of menopause. Tamsin literally pulled together the biggest, hottest menopause party the world has ever seen. just, I got, we got to take that in for a moment. Like it is such a big deal. And I am counting on all of you. Everyone who is on the Zoom, everyone who's in this room, we are counting on you to take this back to all of your friends, all of your family. Let's get rid of the shame. Let's get the clinical trials going. Let's start to pay attention to women's health the way we should. And let's take care of each other.

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Tamsen (40:58)

Absolutely. Thank you all so much. I really hope you had a good time. didn't know what all it was going to be, but it feels like we might be thinking about, I don't know, maybe we got to have another one. Okay, that's what I think too. New York.

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Stacy (41:20)

I know, I think we have to. Right? And I think it's New York. We can do it from anywhere if we're inviting the world. You know what I mean? Let's do it from Paris.

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Tamsen (41:30)

Paris, what? I knew I loved you, friend.

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Stacy (41:38)

Because you had so many people from the hottest menopause party from all around the world. I'm like, well, we don't have to do this in Vegas. Let's just find this screen in Paris, in London. do Rome, Milan. What do we want?

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Tamsen (41:50)

If bringing a party, you bring it to Vegas, and I thought if you had a secret and you wanted to get it out, you bring it to Vegas because they say, we're not going to keep it here. That's for sure. I really appreciate everybody who made the journey. I've talked to so many of you, and we can't do it without you going forward. We need to help the younger generation. We need to help people that don't have this information. We're going to keep doing this.

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Stacy (42:12)

You gotta buy Tamsen's book. How to Menopause. I am lucky enough to have read it and contributed to it. And I feel so strongly that it is the road map, the guide for life that we wish we had. And our big sister finally gave it to us.

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Tamsen (42:26)

Thank you.

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