Stacy (00:00)

Tamsen Fadal is an award-winning journalist, author, and menopause advocate who has used her platform to amplify the voices of women navigating this stage of life. Through her reporting, personal storytelling, and advocacy work, she's helping to break the silence and normalize conversations around menopause in media and beyond. Pines is co-founder of Women in the Room Productions, where she's committed to diversity in front of and behind the screen. She's a media pioneer, award-winning marketer, serial entrepreneur, and community health advocate.

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Together they co-produced the M Factor, a groundbreaking documentary that takes an unfiltered look at menopause. Will to welcome Tamsen and Denise to Hello Menopause.

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So ladies, I'm so happy to welcome you. You are both the producers of the Factor film, which is like taking the world by storm and educating women all over and gender non-binary folks all about this amazing reckoning Renaissance enchantress phase called menopause. Welcome Tamsen and Denise. And I'd love to know one, how you connected on this idea and two, how do you go from big dream of producing a film to making it a reality?

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Denise (02:10)

I mean, how we got connected was a mutual friend, ⁓ Julie Gordon White, connected Tamsen and I. I told her, I said to her, I want to meet Tamsen. She's like, okay, introduction. And then Tamsen and I, we just started talking about the space, where we were with it. And then at some point we said something about a film. And I was like, my God, yeah, I have a treatment for a film. She's like, well, I've been out there shooting. I'm using whatever I can.

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I'm getting using my iPhone. I'm getting these stories from ladies. I'm talking to doctors and we were like, okay, let's do it. Let's just do this. Let's do it together. Right. And so we really sort of figured out what did that mean? Right. So yes, all you could be excited about doing something, but what does that mean? ⁓ What is the story we're really going to tell and where is this going to go? Right. Because

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I had kind of gone out there early a couple years ago and was really poo-pooed out of offices. And you name any them, big people, they were like, get out of here with that. What else do you have? Who's going to watch that? Half the women in the world. And literally, that's what's happened. So that's kind of how we came together. we just, we really worked really well. There were

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You know, things, know, Tams and I are like, we are get it done people. We're like, we're not fooling around. This thing is going to come out, you know, World Menopause Day 2024. You better get out the way because it's going to happen.

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Stacy (03:52)

I mean, I would never presume to get, I would always get out of the way, but I don't, you for those people who don't know you, I can attest to the fact that these are two women who get things done. And Tamsen, you were already shooting things on your iPhone. You were making notes. I know, I know. I mean, and we've seen so many different iterations of the, you know, what menopause has become in terms of the conversation, right? So where were, where did you start with this idea yourself? Like, where did you start with the iPhone shooting before you, you know, teamed up and really got this going?

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Tamsen (04:28)

Well, you know, I've been a journalist for such a long time and so was doing news full on. That's what I was doing every day. But the story I kept hearing over and over was menopause and midlife. And you and I connected on this. You were really one of the, Stacey, one of the first conversations I'd ever had where I'm like, oh my God, I left lunch and I went, Stacey London and I were talking about menopause for like two hours. It was a beautiful, I think it was like a summer going into fall day. can't remember what time it was.

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Stacy (04:54)

Before you got married. I mean, it was, was, oh, it was summer. feel like, I feel like it was 2019.

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Tamsen (05:02)

Isn't that crazy? So you know where this has gone in the past. Is that six years? I don't even know. ⁓ But you know, so that conversation started there, but I had so many of those conversations, right? And one in particular I had with Joanne Lamarca, who is another one of our co-producers and Coby Atlas, who's a director. And Joanne Lamarca and I were talking one day. We were introduced by somebody. You know, this community just keeps like, I want to meet her. I'm going to meet her. ⁓ she and I were talking and I said, gosh, I just keep having the same conversation over and over. You know, we should be talking about doing something with it. Maybe we should do something for YouTube. Literally, that's how it started. So that's why we were filming the way we were, because we went into Times Square with an iPhone and we said like, we'll upgrade to a camera. But I really think that the truth is, that because all of us are storytellers, realized that was going to the power of the storytelling was the only way that this was going to move the message.

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And that is, you know, we've seen that time and time and time again. So that's how we got here. And then Denise and I met and Denise and I, remember one of the first emails she wrote me and I wrote right back to her and she went, that was really fast. And I said, yeah, well, right. That's ever stopped.

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Stacy (06:11)

I don't think you've ever the two of us. Between the two of you, I feel so lazy by comparison. I will lie down on the couch. you're crazy. Oh my God. I see Tamsa with, you know, one of her videos with her post-its and her pencils and I'm like, oh my God, she's so busy. But I think it's actually really important to say that this is probably the most comprehensive film on menopause that's ever been made. I do believe that there is a reason that our generation and you in particular are responsible for this. You both have had personal experiences with menopause and the confusion that comes along with it that you don't get without an education. And you have essentially set out as pioneers to be those educators. Tamsen, I know you're writing a book, Denise, are you writing a book too? Okay, I just want to make sure I'm not getting a bad.

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Tamsen (07:08)

She's along with me. She's like, I'm just going to help Tamsen with her stress.

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Stacy (07:14)

Right, well listen, that's what we're all here to do because there's a lot. But what I think is really important is if we're talking about this film as the most comprehensive education, where has it gone? Where did you expect it to wind up and where has it gone?

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Denise (07:29)

I think just initially we just hoped to get it aired, right? I mean, we were just hoping like, could we get it aired across the country where everyone could see it? And then it just became a phenom. ⁓ Really just women embrace this film all over the world. It didn't matter what country. I mean, we've converted this film into about 10 languages, including Hebrew in terms of captions. I mean, that's just...

You know, and it's interesting because it's very much a US story point of view, but the issue isn't right. The issue is universal. Means that women across the world are suffering exactly the way Tamsen and myself and you suffered and all the other women in the same exact way, not enough information, doctors who don't know how to help us, ⁓ you know, being silent about what's happening and

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That is global, right? Some places worse than others, where they are hiding to have and watch this film, to others who are having this film in the open and having it recorded. And film festivals, yes, we'll be at two film festivals this weekend in California.

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Stacy (08:41)

and film festivals. That's fantastic.

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Denise (08:50)

Because Tamsen is by coastal by the way. Yeah, yeah, so she'll be in California.

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Tamsen (08:56)

Yeah, I'm excited about that. You know what, I get excited, you we have this big grid that we, you know, we keep track of all the communities that come together. And I think, and Denise and I have talked about this a bit, but I think it's no longer just the film. I think it's the fact that there's this conversation afterwards. It happens like 20, 30 minutes, an hour and a half where you really see the sense of community, right? So the film started the conversation and then the community happens afterwards, but we have this grid and I actually just pulled it up. So I just wanna read you just a couple of the places where the film has been in the last four months. Hong Kong, New South Wales, Indonesia, Canada, UK, there's a ton of those. ⁓ Then we go to places like we're in...

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and any of the islands were absolutely there. I mean, it goes on and on with regard to the international films that I'm filming at a lot of Asia, Mumbai, where else did you say? Romania. So I think that that part is the exciting part to me to know that it's moving to all of these different places. And I, it's kind of shocking actually.

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Denise (09:50)

Romania.

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Stacy (10:01)

But you know what, was England and sorry, say that again. You said shocking, but thrilling. Say that line again.

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Tamsen (10:09)

It's shocking but thrilling.

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Stacy (10:12)

The thing that I think is so interesting is this is just the beginning, right? I mean, you are gonna go worldwide. This will be global, not just as a film. We knew this was going to be a movement that was going to have to be. It's 51 % of the world's population, right? But you've put together the film in such a way that it is more than just any documentary. I really feel like it's a primer for people who could see this much younger than in the throes of menopause, but really to educate them before they get there, which has ⁓ constantly been a goal that I've heard in our community. the women who have really been on the forefront of this and who have spoken to each other, have collaborated together, it's that we knew community had to be the biggest part of this. it's like nothing dropped out of the sky to figure out how to order this film, who to include in this film, who to interview, how did you go through that whole process? mean, how did you even, you know, dial it down enough to decide what you're shooting on one day?

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Denise (11:17)

It was tough, right? Because we all have so many physician friends, right? So really it's looking at making sure that we have the most credible people on this, right? So that the film wouldn't get attacked. So I think we started kind of there.

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Stacy (11:39)

Now, when you say you were worried that the film would get attacked, in what sense? this I find, this is really important, right? Because this is about more than just menopause. This is really women's health that nobody wants to talk about or deal with, or they're willing to poo poo. So what attacks were you worried about?

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Denise (12:00)

Well, I think one, when you're going to talk about anything health related and you're going to also talk about solutions for those health issues, and it's never been done before, not in a mass way, right? Not for mainstream consumption, maybe online, but not in this way. And then being with like the number one most credited, know, content provider, which is PBS and also NPR, you know, we knew we had to step our game up in order to you know, be inside that platform because they scrutinize everything that is in the film. Right. So every stat had to have a track to where the stat you couldn't just say, for example, ⁓ Tamsen had interviewed someone who had said ⁓ there are 26, you know, medications for men ⁓ for, you know, around time. Number two.

But when we went to go find the 26, there were, there was no staff.

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Tamsen (13:03)

That's a day for us to days for us to try to research and confirm.

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Denise (13:08)

What we found is that there are definitively eight in 15 variations of VEKED. So we couldn't do that. So that's just something very simple, but just in terms of what people say, because we wanted this film, one, to be embraced by physicians, meaning we wanted to be able to get this film accredited so that physicians could actually use this film as a tool to renew their license. And we were able to do that.

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Yeah, so we wanted to be part of medical curriculum as a supplement to what is happening now in medical schools. So we knew like those were some of our end goals. So we knew like coming into it, we had to make sure that we had, you know, like we were having the right conversations with those we were interviewing ⁓ in that, you know, what they were going to say back to us was going to be right and not sort of like flippant or, you know, like, I kind of say this to some of these patients, but we really wanted to have like the right information.

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Stacy (14:10)

Yeah, I mean, that really comes across in the film, Tempton, as well. I was thinking about the fact that one of the things that struck me most was the absolute diversity, ⁓ not only of the speakers, but of the experience. And that to me was ⁓ one of the things that I find most welcoming about this documentary. And for everyone listening, your action item here is go watch the documentary and take notes because I really believe that this is a primer that was done in such a way that really everybody can understand it. Everybody can feel connected and comforted by it. And then everybody can go and find their community to commune with, right? And I wonder if that was, did you do that deliberately? Did you know? And I'm really talking about the diversity of menopausal experience. Did you realize that you were gonna get such rich stories from everybody in all in fact, in all the subject matter that you cover, whether it's sexual dysfunction or hot flashes, you're really talking about personal experiences. And I think that's what makes it easier to start that conversation after you watch it, because you just watched for an hour and half while people actually talk about the thing you're afraid to say. So how did you go about finding your doctors and finding all of the patients that you spoke with?

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Tamsen (15:31)

I think that with regard to the stories, mean, you know, I did outreach to you actually for one of those stories. But I think it was important for us to make sure that we had that diversity in the storytelling because everybody has, as we all know, all three of us have had a different experience of menopause. We all came at it at a different age, had different intensities, had different symptoms. So, you know, we could have gone on and done a hundred stories and they still all would have been very diverse and different.

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We really wanted to nail down the ones that were the big symptoms that we know that a lot of women talk about when we're talking about sex, when we're talking about body, when we're talking about mental health aspects, when we're talking about the age and women that are being thrust into menopause. So I think that it was not hard to find the stories. I think it was hard to decide which ones to use.

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I think that's it because I think we could have gone on honestly all day since everybody has such a diversity of the different symptoms. And I actually also commend the women for being so raw and open because I don't think that's so easy. After you've told your story or experienced your story, then really telling it and reliving it again so that somebody understands it and they feel seen sitting in the audience after the film's been shown now hundreds of times.

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I think speaks a lot to the women being able to be so raw and vulnerable in sharing their stories. And that was important to us to have because we didn't want to do a film of just a bunch of experts telling women what to do. We wanted women to say like, okay, I'm not alone. I'm not going crazy. There's not something wrong with me. And now that I know that part, what can I do to solve it?

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Stacy (17:10)

Yeah, and it really, again, I think the film is incredibly solution-based. You do talk about all the areas that aren't discussing, whether it's, know, MHT menopause hormone therapy or something that's from pharma or something that's naturopathic. You don't really, you know, what I think is important is that there's no, the biggest thing that I see right now, and Tamsen, we've talked about this a little bit, is just that people, they're always gonna be the catfish that are going to money, grub and go and sell things that are just, you know, magic fairy dust to a very vulnerable group of people who really need to understand their circumstances in order not to get played by a zillion companies who now see menopause is a big ticket. Menopause is a big ticket and therefore we're gonna make 10,000 things you don't need in order to make money off of it. And what I felt is what this film leads with is compassion. And what's so important was that you let everyone see it for free. You know, this is like not just the idea that this is a tool that medical ⁓ students can use and doctors can use, that it's really like anybody who

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We'd go to the library, you know, back in the day when they had like microfiche or a Dewey decimal system. I, you know, I can imagine like if I tried to explain menopause to somebody, I mean, now obviously we have better terms, but if I was trying to explain my experience, I would feel like I am crazy. I can't stop crying. I have like the shortest views. I don't want to get out of bed. I don't understand what happened. I guess this is just getting older. There's this.

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aspect of it where at some point I know I felt so defeated that I didn't think there was any coming out of this. Do you feel like your work in menopause, in your advocacy and in this film have helped you with your own menopausal and aging experience?

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Tamsen (19:15)

That's such a great question. Denise, you want to start?

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Denise (19:18)

Yeah, I think for me, you know, ⁓ my journey was a little before the film. So my journey was when I first got hot flashes and I knew I wanted to deal with them naturally because it's just how I approach my health. And then I partnered with the doctor. We co-created these line of menopausal teas. And when I realized like that worked for me, but I realized why was I caught off guard? Like,

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Why did I think I wasn't going to have a hot flash? Just because I run and do whatever. But why did I really have that fixated in my mind? And so when it happened, my first hot flash, I actually thought I was having a heart attack. And I thought, ⁓ my God, I'm in my house by myself and I'm having a heart attack. Like nobody's going to find me. I'm to be like dead. And then it went away. And then it came back. Like by the fourth one, I got it. I was having hot flashes. And so I thought, gosh, women all around the world are like Boom, having a moment that signifies to them their body has changed and we're not connected to what it is. We don't know, we don't think it's gonna happen to us. Just absolutely no information. And I thought we're inside the healthcare continuum. Did healthcare actually let us down? Where did they stop? There was once the time you said that, you used the term expired.

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I said, wow, I really expired into you caring about me anymore, right? Right? Until you just simply caring about me anymore. And especially around this stage where I don't not necessarily needing to go into hospital on a frequent basis because I'm not at the aging area. ⁓ And, you know, I knew like I wanted to demystify this for so many women and started doing the wise pause events, which you've participated in, Stacey and

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You know, really trying to figure out like using all the tools that I have within my toolkit, right? Medical regulation, how can we impact there? How can we get, you know, CMEs for this? How do we get doctors better educated? We're doing something now in California. We have two bills that are going to go before ⁓ the assembly and the state, which is what ours is. And hopefully they land on the governor's desk and hopefully he signs them. ⁓ One is about insurance coverage. And the other one is something I've been working on for a long time, which is to really, we say doctors don't know, but none of us have proof, right? None of us have proof.

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Stacy (21:59)

So there's no clinical research.

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Denise (22:01)

So we're gonna do this ⁓ survey in the state of California because we licensed the most physicians and we'll be able to know with a knowledge gap in treatment and management. And then we can go from there. And this is not to cast aspersion on these physicians. How do we help them to get educated? Cause women are showing up. And the reason like California is so important is because our state is aging. And by 2030, something like 28 % of the population will be 60 and above. And we're not ready.

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Stacy (22:39)

No, we are not ready. It's so interesting that you bring that up. mean, Tamsen, we were talking about this a little bit, that part of the interest in this is that I will say that I really do believe that conquering and demystifying menopause is Gen X's legacy, because we just don't take shit lying down. Smart women like yourself were like, I don't understand this. That will not stand, right? And you went out and you figured it out so you could help other people. I think it's so important one that there is a personal conviction to the stories that you're telling because it makes them that much better and much more relatable to other people. ⁓ I'm curious what you see Tamsen in the future. know, Denise is talking about California and these bills. What else? mean, I know we've been talking, I've talked to Dr. Kelly Casperson, I've talked to Dr. Sharon Malone about taking the black thoughts off of estrogen. What do you see next?

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Tamsen (23:43)

You know, I think what's been interesting to me is from where we started having this conversation to where we are right now, I feel like we've got this bucket of all these different areas that have to be hit. Right? Like I think we talked about longevity being next, because we're to have to have that next part of the conversation of, what happens once you've got your physical symptoms, right? Now, where do we go after this? Like people want to have this extended health span where we're not just living longer, but better. So we know that's going to

something is be starting there and I feel like it's gonna be as big as what we're seeing with menopause. But I do feel like here, in order to get there, I feel like we have to hit some of these areas when Denise is talking about doctors understanding it. We need to start this in grade school. Like who's handling that part? Who's handling young people? Then we've got to deal with the black box warning and then on top of all of that, we need more money for research. Like really more money for real research because...

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No matter how much we're shouting and no matter how many women see the documentary, no matter many countries, there's still lot of confusion about what exists because that education started such a long time ago and has just gone all throughout our culture. We've just been ingrained with all of these concepts of right, wrong, and healthy, not healthy, dangerous, not dangerous. So I feel like we've got a lot of different roads to hit. But for what's next, I think it's got to be the younger women first. That's where I think this goes.

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And then I think we've got to hit the older population too, because to your point, Denise, New York has an aging population as well. And I can't remember what the numbers were, but I think they were pretty substantial, if I'm not mistaken, of how many people are going to be over 70 or 65 or something coming up in the next 10 years. ⁓ So I get excited about what's next, but I feel like we a lot of work to do right now.

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Stacy (25:26)

That actually brought me back to my point. I think I got a little off track. Thank you, Tamsen, because of what you just said. These are the things surrounding the film or surrounding, Tamsen, your new book, How to Manipause, all of these things that are actual practical guides that give us both, not contradicting information, but there are places where there is still confusion because we don't have enough information. But what I was going to say is that I think

that that is the work of GenX. So it's our legacy to meet this moment. Like I really believe as a generation.

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Tamsen (26:05)

You've always said that. Always. Like, for years ago, I remember that.

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Stacy (26:09)

Yeah, and I know that we're talking about it even more. I want to go back to the question one, what changed you, Tamsen, during making this or going through the experience of menopause? But what you did say is all of the things that I think we are now responsible for. How do we get younger women involved? How do we get this research done? How do we and what does this really take is money, right? So where are we getting that from? Is that coming from federal dollars, especially in the climate that we find ourselves in right now? Is that going to be big pharma? Where are we going to get that? Because, you know, putting dollars in women's hands is the only way to blow shit up as far as I can see. Right. Right. I mean, these ideas of striking so that you're not buying anything from, you know, shops that are rolling back DEI, something like that. We have economic power. And especially women who are going through chronological menopause are of the age where we have a great deal of economic power, Gen X and elder millennials. So what would be some ideas of yours for, is it fundraising? Is it private companies? Who do you think is gonna be able to kind of collaborate with thought leaders like yourselves in order to make these things really possible?

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Denise (27:29)

I think it's women with money. Honestly, I really think it's women with money. When you look at the government, so the White House initiative was announced about two years ago now. ⁓ Now we know where they've spent the money, where they put the money into for the new research. Only 13 million of that money, 200 million, 13 million went to menopause.

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Stacy (27:53)

Which is like three cents.

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Tamsen (27:55)

embarrassing.

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Denise (27:56)

Right? So we're still in the same boat.

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Stacy (27:59)

And that's federal.

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Denise (28:01)

That's federal. So we have to keep yelling and screaming. And when you look at like women's startups, women's startups started to flourish when women started investing in other women. And we don't train women. We don't teach women to be investors, right? Manage the home. We do a great job of all of that. Make sure our kids go to college. Da da da da da. grandkids. But we never say, hey lady, Hey, you can help change the world by investing into this company that has a solution specific for women that hasn't been addressed yet.

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Stacy (28:44)

We need to start a fund. That is the first thing. We need to start a fund that is specifically around this because I do think, you make a really strong point. It's going to be women with money. That could be VCs. That could be institutional money or that could be family homes. mean, family, what do they call them? Family funds. Family offices. Thank you. I'm like home, den, family den, TV room. Anyway.

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But we should just call it hot flash fund. that's really how because I do I am concerned and I was concerned even when President Biden and Dr. Jill Biden announced this initiative that menopause would not get its due that you know saying you're going to do something for women doesn't mean just menopause right and menopause is usually never the priority.

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Denise (29:35)

Where we have historically looked at women's health, it's only been within a particular confine, and that's childbirth years. And then that's as if women's health is only defined by that. And that's what we've been chipping against right now.

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Stacy (29:51)

And I thought you were going to say that women's health has only been ever measured against men because there's so little research done on women, right? Yes, exactly. But childbirth, yeah, and childbirth years make sense.

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Tamsen (30:02)

I think what I worry about is I don't want this to be a trend that falls off. And I think that's why we keep pounding the message away. And that's why I hope this film keeps going out, being pushed out there so it spreads wider and wider. I always worry because when I see all the companies jumping in and then they're going to be like, OK, what's next? I don't want this to get left without it being solved, fixed, focused on really having a long-term effect of what this conversation is. I do worry about that a little bit.

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Stacy (30:31)

I mean, I've always worried, particularly when it comes to menopause's relationship with the press. Because, know, it's right. mean, nobody, nobody would dare utter the word. And then it was like a fad. And then, you know, trends go away. But now, this is why I think these kinds of conversations are so important. It's not just books. It's not just films. Maybe it's a fund. Maybe it's all of these things that go to the assurance that menopause doesn't get left behind. That when we start looking at longevity, because I think exactly that is what are women gonna do with their health post menopause, right? That is the easiest next topic and then obviously mortality, right? These are the things that we know are coming. But how do you pick up, let's say, let's just say it's like not even the back half, let's say it's the fifth act of our lives. How do we make sure That we don't use menopause while recognizing the needs of the population we're aging in. How do we keep focus in menopause and be able to do the other things? Do you think another film might happen? Would you do a series?

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Denise (31:41)

Well? We have something brewing. We do have something brewing. We do. We do. We do.

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Stacy (31:49)

That's wonderful because if it's mainstream education, right? I mean, the Department of Education is something else completely, but the idea of education being consistent and continual is wonderful.

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Tamsen (32:04)

Yeah, I am necessary. And I think that, look, we had no idea that this was going to have the impact it did. I, Stacey, you and I talked forever ago about it. Denise and I were like, well, okay, it's on PBS. Now what are we, you know, we're going to give it to the women and see maybe we'll have like 50 screenings. We'll see what happens. And we actually had to hire a team to come in and handle like multiple people that are still handling requests constantly to, be able to fulfill the need, which is amazing and speaks volumes to what we need to do next. So yeah, it's exciting.

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Stacy (32:40)

That's also incredible. So you hired a team that is specifically reaching out to these people to deal with the documentary.

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Tamsen (32:45)

Dealing with incoming.

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Stacy (32:48)

⁓ incoming, my God, ⁓ my God.

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Denise (32:51)

We were getting like 40, requests a day.

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Stacy (32:57)

my god!

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Tamsen (32:59)

Corporations, doctors, physicians, communities, churches, women within their homes, government offices, all around the world. Yeah, big corporations. It's like, yeah. It took us by storm, I'll tell you that.

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Stacy (33:16)

Yeah, I mean, it took us all by storm because there were a lot of starts and stops in the beginning of this, right? And we talked about the fact that menopause was first, ew, right? We had to de-stigmatize it. We had to normalize it in order for it to be part of conversation. How do we go on? And maybe this is really the point of your work in the film. Is this how we democratize it? Is that we make something available that is nutrient rich information, right? It is so important, this information, that it becomes almost like part of, ⁓ you know, any scholastic program, whether you're in medical school or you're in second grade, there's a movie about that. You we got a film about that.

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Tamsen (34:01)

I mean, I'd love it.

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Denise (34:03)

We know we've arrived when we show up at the doctor and there is a specific question just geared towards perimenopause. To begin the process of our healthcare from that standpoint. That's when we know we're done.

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Stacy (34:21)

You think about, ⁓ not necessarily concierge physicians, but OB-GYNs who are just GYNs? Because I've thought a lot about the fact that ⁓ gynecologists, mean, really their trade was to deliver babies, right? And obviously like female health or whatever we're going to call vaginal health, right? ⁓ But I think now

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There is such a demand for gynecologists who don't deliver babies because there is this population, elder millennials, gen X, ⁓ that really require exactly what you're talking about, Denise, where that's the litmus test. If you can go to a doctor, mention one thing and have them start to take you down the road of education. See this film, read this book, listen to this podcast, then you get a lot more bang for your buck.

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And that five minute doctor's appointment comes with a list of homework that you get to do on your own, that you don't need to do in that office, which again, it's hard enough on doctors to make enough time to really get to the problems in menopause. It's almost like you need a separate appointment for that. It's not a physical. So ⁓ I wonder if this is the way the word gets spread. This is the gospel.

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Tamsen (35:37)

I would love that. I mean, I do think we need to have the one thing we all are going to have is like the same age. That's like the one constant, right? So we know when mammograms you're supposed to think about, know in colonoscopies you're supposed to think about, men know when they're certain. We don't have that with perimenopause or menopause. I know that we're like, oh, it's a check, but I don't really know that that has been something that is super, super clear. I'd like to see that because I feel like that's the easiest, like that's low hanging fruit of like the easiest thing to do is make sure that those 35 questions or whatever they are hit to you when you're going to the OBGYN or the GP or the whatever you're going to at the age of 35, which we know you're most likely going to your OB.

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Stacy (36:14)

Yeah, fair enough. And I would even say, know, I mean, the fact that we call 35 a geriatric pregnancy.

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Tamsen (36:20)

I mean, if we're gonna call it that, might as well stick gerimenopause into it, the conversation.

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Stacy (36:24)

Why do we stick something that's actually geriatric into the conversation? But I think that that really resonates with me, Tamsen, because I do think we have to figure out what is the low-hanging fruit? What can you get with the momentum that you've already started? And then what are those next steps to keep momentum going? So it's never a trend. It just becomes part of the medical firmament of how...how in fact we deal with patients.

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Tamsen (36:56)

Yeah, a lot would be solved by that.

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Stacy (36:58)

Yes. that, mean, there's a lot of doctors in the world, but even the doctors that you spoke with in the film are so intelligent and so remarkable in their own right. They can be the start of that movement. They can disseminate that information to their students or their residents or whatever that might be. But Tamsen, you've done all this work, all this work, write the book, the film. I know you have a podcast coming out. I don't know when that's coming out, but I know that it is large stuff. Okay, fantastic. And that's a lot to have done for somebody who when I met had just passed out on the bathroom floor and said, What is going on? You open your patient portal after seeing the doctor and says in perimenopause.

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Tamsen (37:56)

Yeah, I'm going to pause any questions.

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Stacy (37:58)

questions. A lot of questions. How do you feel different today, having put in all this work to create knowledge for something that's much bigger than either of you? And coming out of menopause, like I feel like I'm definitely post menopausal, I don't have any of the symptoms that I had before. So I feel like I really went through this reckoning, you know, it was like David and Goliath and I wanted to come out on top.

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You've put all this time and energy into work when you've also gone through menopause. How does that make you feel? Does it feel like coming out of one big storm or does it feel like you've matured in different ways?

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Tamsen (38:42)

You know, it's funny when you said 2019, I realized it's been six years the most that like blew my mind at the beginning of this. Like I had no idea that it's been, I really had no idea it's been this long. It feels like I've had quite the learning curve and I think I just, feel strong. can't, I don't know if that's the right word for it, but I just feel very different. Like I had no, I had a very tough time with the brain bog and the memory recollection and it really made me afraid to speak publicly. I hated going, you doing the news because I was always like, God, if I scrub again on this, you know, prompter or whatever it was. And we went right into COVID after that happened. And I think you and I, I don't know if we met before or after COVID or in between all of it, but I think somewhere around there. Very close. I think we did too. Or remet because we've known each other for a long time. ⁓

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But I guess I feel like I feel very different on the other side of this. Like I have clarity. I wouldn't have had this conversation without notes in front of me ⁓ three years ago. Isn't that weird? Like I would have had a little note thing at the top of my computer so I could look at it and remember the dates and the times and the places and then words. And so I definitely feel very different. I feel very freed. And I made a scary decision a year and a year plus ago to leave my job, but I couldn't stop telling this story and when I realized where we were going, you know, with it, like that made it really important. So I didn't feel really good. ⁓ Yeah, I just I feel really good about it. And I'm doing that. As you know, the world's hottest menopause party. I don't know when this is there, but March the first.

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Stacy (40:16)

Yes! My god, that's a March 1st in the hottest place in the world.

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Tamsen (40:21)

In the hottest place in world. So wear your tanks. But it was really important for me to do it for free so that women have access to information and so that at least that they can, everyone can have a starting point there somewhere where we're not saying, know, they can have a starting point with all these different experts and stuff. you know, I think that that was the next step after Denise and I saw where this film went in the interest, I was like, well, this is not US, this is global. I mean, that's what we're seeing for sure. The conversations, the world is getting smaller.

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Stacy (40:50)

I just realized we should also have a silent disco at your hottest menopause party. Everybody should be wearing earphones dancing around to their own music. Because I really believe, right, we should just dance to our own beat at this stage of life. you know, I was also thinking what you said, Tamsen, and that kind of spirit of generosity is something that I have seen really spread throughout this kind of menopause community. The way, you know, somebody says, I want to meet so-and-so. No problem. Like, you know, we're all on the same side of this, where I think for a moment there was real confusion and, you know, sort of conflict over, you know, who was supposed to do what, and who is saying what about whom, and who's working with this doctor and who's working with this pharmacist or, you know, whatever it is. Instead, what I've really seen is us get to this third stage of solidarity, where the people who went out and did the work and the research are fighting like hell for everybody else. so Denise, you said before, we're not taught to be investors, we're taught to be philanthropists. And unfortunately, we need to be both. But just being able to give the hottest menopause party in the world to people for free is such an indication and a generosity of spirit that is in the film as well.

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So I honestly, I can't thank you enough. Really our action item today is to go see the film, come to Tamsen's ⁓ hottest menopause party, read the book, How to Menopause. Denise, are you still making your teas?

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Denise (42:27)

I'm still doing the tease.

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Stacy (42:29)

Okay, so let's talk about that just for a couple minutes, because I want everybody to know where they're going to be able to find both of you. So talk to me, I know about the hot flash tea. When I did my menopause retreat, we had it for everybody and they loved it. But what other ones have you worked on?

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Denise (42:46)

We have brain fog tea, Because of the brain fog. ⁓ We have night sweats. ⁓ Younger women tend to get those first before they maybe get hot flashes. And then we have something called happiness tea for anxiety. So those are, that's kind of like our four lines of teas that we have.

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Stacy (43:05)

And those are four major menopausal issues, right? Hot flashes, night sweats, brain fog, and anxiety. Anxiety, my God, that was the worst for me. I know they were all awful but I mean the anxiety the dread all the time was too much for me I couldn't take it. Where was I going with that question? I was asking you what you did before and what that we've had all of this solidarity that we are philanthropists and that were you know that you guys are being yes okay that's what it was so Denise you've made the tease where can we find the tease?

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Denise (43:44)

You can find the teas at Tbotanics or either ⁓ hotflashtea.com.

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Stacy (43:51)

Okay, great. Either one. Where can we find you and more of what you're doing?

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Denise (43:56)

LinkedIn for sure. And then I have an event that I'm doing April 12th and Tamsen is going to receive one of our first awards. WisePause, W-I-S-E-P-A-U-S-E.com, WisePause. They've been a part of that event as well. So yes, where we just bring doctors out, where they physically engage with, you know, women and they stay pretty much all day, which is unusual for physicians to do that.

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Stacy (44:25)

Tamsen, tell us everything. I know there's a long list. I got you. I'll catch the things. long as you just saw me have like a menopause moment, I was like, where were we? What were we talking about? But it's also that I get really excited, obviously, to see both of you and just what has happened in the short amount of time. It doesn't feel short. It feels like it took forever to get here. But now that we're here, I mean, I have to say it was so amazing when I interviewed Naomi Watts about her book. The women in the audience were just, and there were men. was like, it was just, everybody was in rapture. Everybody had a ⁓ smart question. They had questions about science and medicine, not like, ⁓ I'm so embarrassed and I don't want to be here. And I had to tell my husband, I went to a movie or it was none of that. It was this unbelievable outpouring of vulnerability and compassion, which was really quite amazing. Cause you know, this whole thing of women helping women, only works when women are actually helping women. And that doesn't always happen. So thank you.

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Denise (45:53)

We took the M Factor to Davos.

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Stacy (45:57)

Hello, Davos. Now, the fact that you took the film to Davos in and of itself, I'm like, what? How did that all come about? Let's make sure we do talk about that before we go because that's huge.

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Denise (46:14)

We had someone reach out to us and said, hey, how would you like to bring the film to Davos? And I was like, as in Davos, Switzerland, the world economic forum?

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Stacy (46:24)

Yeah, the World Economic Forum is paying attention to menopause. I'm telling you, when I told you, I don't know if I told you the story, Denise, but I know I told Tamsen. I have a very good friend whose husband is very, very wealthy. And when I was trying to raise money, I went to him and I was like, and he's French. And I went to him and I was like, it's menopause. Menopause is going to be this next big thing. And it's not about, I think it's been much more about the medicine and the science. But I was like, we're gonna be talking about this. We're gonna be talking about this. And he was like, no, you won't. It'll be dead in two years. And now I'm like, you know what, buddy? You'll be dead in two years. But who at Davos invited you?

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Denise (47:12)

So women in work, people ended up inviting us as the officials.

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Stacy (47:16)

So that's amazing.

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Denise (47:18)

First menopause conversation with global leaders, standing room only. We had about six or seven men in the room.

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Stacy (48:27)

That's amazing. mean, that's another litmus test, right? When you've got caring partners that are coming to doctor's appointments with the people who are going through menopause. When you've got people who are supporting you and surrounding you, I think it's very important. And every time I speak, if I see men in the audience, I thank them for being there. Because I'm like, I know this isn't happening to you, but you are going to be the support system that your person needs. I'm glad you remembered that before we signed off. So the big takeaway was that the M-Factor film was a Davos, the world economic forum, because menopause is going to have a huge effect on the world economy. So it makes perfect sense that you should be there. You are pioneers. I can't thank you enough. I appreciate all the work that you do. I'm so glad to know both of you so well.

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Denise (49:21)

Thank you. Thank you.

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